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Discussion Starter #1
I hang out on severall air cooled vintage forums, and if there are two questions that's asked over and over again, it's "how do I re-jet for pods" and "why does my bike run so crappy after adding pods" . Me personally am completely against pods on a street driven application. For every pods sucess story, i read 20 disaster stories. I tried pods on a GS700 years ago, and what a waste of a LOT of time IMO. a couple years ago, I came across a link that was from Jan '83 issue of Cycle World magazine. It's called "In search of free lunch" and it is a fantastic article on tuning for pods. The article uses GS1100 16v engines for testing, and possibly some of you have different outcomes with Kawi J series 1000/1100's . Read it, and you will realize pods are basically a waste of time unless you have a dyno in your garage. Even after the dyno pods are still somewhat of a waste of time..

download the article here:
In Search of Free Lunch.pdf
 

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Gasket Killer
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By air cooled, you mean bikes, right? Otherwise, if you know anywhere that an old air cooled bug guy could hang out, that would be great!

Now, to read the article and see if they mention altitude at all. ;)
 

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OMG, elr, you just jiggled my brain and I counted up how many VW's I have owned, worked on or scrapped in my life...that's an aircooled of a different color. Answer:11, oh that's not bad...but I had more engines than that sitting in my lap...haha, funny, kinda
 

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itching to ride
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Wow I read that article some 27 years ago when the post man first delivered that issue to my door. I was getting cycle, motorcyclist, and cycle world at the time and used to have a huge stack of back issues in a shed behind my mom's house. I guess they got tossed.

I also had a stack of hot rod, car craft, and popular hot rodding. Used to love the technical articles.
 

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Gasket Killer
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I'm on the Samba as well. But most of those guys are purists. I like the cut, weld, drive train of thought. ;)
 

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AZ's Official Mechanic
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Me personally am completely against pods on a street driven application. For every pods sucess story, i read 20 disaster stories.
Read it, and you will realize pods are basically a waste of time unless you have a dyno in your garage. Even after the dyno pods are still somewhat of a waste of time..]
so does this pertain to ONLY AIR COOLED ??? cause all the ones that work must hang out on the zrx board... including mine...... :mrgreen:
the only thing ive seen power wise on the zrx's is that you gain a bunch up top which in turn makes you "THINK" you lost it on the bottom end.. from dyno charts ive seen youre actually UP a couple pounds in the bottom but the RUSH up top is so much better :biggrin: ...
oh and pulling carbs take me like 2 minutes now.... 8)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
so does this pertain to ONLY AIR COOLED ??? cause all the ones that work must hang out on the zrx board... including mine...... :mrgreen:
the only thing ive seen power wise on the zrx's is that you gain a bunch up top which in turn makes you "THINK" you lost it on the bottom end.. from dyno charts ive seen youre actually UP a couple pounds in the bottom but the RUSH up top is so much better :biggrin: ...
oh and pulling carbs take me like 2 minutes now.... 8)
I've been told that as a generall rule (air or liquid cooled) if you have Mikuni CV type carbs, they will almost guarantee to have initial negitive performance gains on a stock or close to stock street engine. Many folks have commented that CV's need to sense a vacuum "signal" that's present within an enclosed OEM type airbox to function correctly.
 

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Let The Good Times Roll
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I sure am glad I read this thread, the Cycle World article (which I still have up in the attic), and the other informative posts from the rest of the KZ1000/KZ1100 guys that hang out here. I last posted in October that I had purchased a 1981 GPz1100 with the original fuel injection and it ran like sh*t. So I bought the Mikuni BS34 carbs and I put them on a few days ago and it ran worse. Actually, it wouldn't start without ether which I know is a no-no. And then it would die out after about 15 seconds. How's that for progress? So then I had to put the old thinking cap on and figure out what was wrong. Suck/Squeeze/Bang/Blow...how hard could that be? I had already done a compression test, the engine was getting gas and there was spark on all four cylinders. But it was a weak spark and after throwing in four new plugs it fired up and would at least run for 10 or15 seconds. I was "gaining on it" as the little old lady that lived next door used to say. The carbs that I purchased on ebay came off of a running 1982 KZ1000. Really? Well it must not have been running that great with two clogged main jets (122.5) and two clogged pilot jets (37.5) I tried the carbs before cleaning them in an act of good faith. After cleaning the carbs I installed some cheapo pods to begin the jetting process. The bike idled at 4000 rpm's possibly because the previous owner had turned out the throttle cable adjustment all the way to compensate for problems with the original fuel injection. So I turned that down and adjusted the cable tension and played with the idle adjustment at the carbs. It didn't want to idle much below 2000 rpm so I called it a day and figured that I was going to have to make some jetting changes. After reading the Cycle World article and all the posts here I have now decided that chasing the jetting is a problem that I don't want to solve. The original air box and filter will be going back on soon and I will post an update.

Mark

P.S. Did you guys see the Eddie Lawson Replica NOS gas tank sell on ebay for
$1345? And the guy lives three towns away from me. I wonder if he
still has an ELR?
 

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I remember the old 82 CB650SC Nighthawk was so sensitive to the air box that it would screw up if you farted in the general direction of the air box. If you ever know someone looking at an 82 chain drive CB650SC Nighthawk, beat some sense into them before they buy it! I learned about them at the Honda dealership where I sold bikes.
 

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Let The Good Times Roll
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Can you tell that I posted this morning about reinstalling the original airbox with BS34s on my 1981 GPz1100 before I actually looked at the bike? There is not enough clearance. Any ideas? As far as jetting goes I have the original 4 into 2 exhaust. No mods.

Mark
 

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Obsessed by Z1's
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so does this pertain to ONLY AIR COOLED ??? cause all the ones that work must hang out on the zrx board... including mine...... :mrgreen:
the only thing ive seen power wise on the zrx's is that you gain a bunch up top which in turn makes you "THINK" you lost it on the bottom end.. from dyno charts ive seen youre actually UP a couple pounds in the bottom but the RUSH up top is so much better :biggrin: ...
oh and pulling carbs take me like 2 minutes now.... 8)
Dyno charts are worthless in assessing pods.

Turbulance behind the engine is what robs the engine of CONSISTENT air flow thru the filters. Plus the pods are more exposed rain that a factory airbox.

Yes, they do make it easier to pull the carbs - and I even run pods on a couple of my bikes - but only because the factory airbox was removed by a previous owner.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I remember the old 82 CB650SC Nighthawk was so sensitive to the air box that it would screw up if you farted in the general direction of the air box. If you ever know someone looking at an 82 chain drive CB650SC Nighthawk, beat some sense into them before they buy it! I learned about them at the Honda dealership where I sold bikes.
Funny you mention this, I remember my 1990 ZX10 would not even rev past 2000 rpm's unless the air box was fitted in place as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
P.S. Did you guys see the Eddie Lawson Replica NOS gas tank sell on ebay for
$1345? And the guy lives three towns away from me. I wonder if he
still has an ELR?
Was that tank for sale by Ebay seller "GG Cycles" in Salisbury, MA ?

If so, I worked for this dealer for many years, and the owner who is also a close personal friend, actually owned 3 KZ1000 "R" models . His favorite of which was a prestine, '82 R1 which from financial hardship recently had to sell on Ebay. An overseas Japaneese collector paid $12K for his bike
 

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Let The Good Times Roll
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Obfuscation Engineer
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lil secret about the cb650nh and it's , well , being possessed by demonic entities that have the single minded determination to drive any normal mechanic insane ...

Depending on model there are vent tubes/hoses between 1&2/3&4 or 1&2 and outside of #4 if I dimly remember correctly . Anyway the point is run the vents to the airbox . Don't ask why just do it . I drill a hole or three a bit larger than the hose so I can get a grommet into the hole and have a tight seal on the hose .
Yes , with the vents plumbed into the airbox, the airbox pressure/vacuum has an effect on carb performance that I will leave as an exercise in overthink to any of you that didn't listen to "just do it " .

That said , I'd sooner be bent over a chemical toilet and violated with a garden weasel than work on another one .

~kop
 
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