Kawasaki Motorcycle Forums banner
21 - 40 of 55 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I’ve got the carb and stuck choke boiling. Unfortunately the cable did not survive the process due to a completely unforeseen frustration spell 😅 I thought it might be good though to also remove the muffle and make sure it’s unobstructed and doesn’t have excess carbon build up. When I pulled it off it felt like it had alot of weight to it. I don’t have access to an Oxy acetylene torch, what else could I use to clear it out?
I also took the opportunity to look at the piston and very slowly run it through with the kickstarter and noticed that when it was at TDC and compressing, that bubbles were forming around the bottom of the piston, as if air was escaping. Could the mean that my piston rings are bad?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
732 Posts
Cracked piston rings will do that, but you had pretty good compression. I would wait till you get the choke sorted out. Then go from there. Too many tests done at once will confuse anyone. These things need be done systematically. A stuck choke will load the bike up, or, if it doesn't close, you have to you your hand or something over the choke to start the bike. My CB400F is heavily modified (Kaz Yoshima Stage III motor), the stock carbs were turned into smooth bores by Kazio Yoshima, no choke on them. I tilted the bike way over to flood the carbs, then I could start it. In colder moths, I carried a piece of stiff cardboard under the seat, and choked the carbs right over the unfiltered intake pods. I only ran it a little while like that. I had planed to drill the carb bodies and put in some ticklers to push the float and force gas in, but I just couldn't get up the nerves to do that. If I can scrape some cash up, I plan to get flat slide carbs for it, that motor deserves it. :)
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,144 Posts
Agreed. Don't worry about the rings. You have good compression.

Oh man, its too bad you broke the choke cable. Is there even a stub left that you can grab with vice grips? If you cannot exert a pull, it may have to be machined out.
Drilling will be next to impossible due to the slot. It may need to be clamped in a vise and end milled. Once you get close to the diameter of the brass choke, it will collapse internally and that relieves the pressure.

The only other trick that might work is to use a drill that is the same size or slightly smaller than the slot. Drill gently until you feel the drill bit break through the back side of the choke. Now you have a passageway to get penetrating oil to the backside.

For your muffler, take it to a muffler shop and ask them to heat it up for you. Take a brass hammer with you and beat the daylights out of it when hot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
732 Posts
I wish I had a picture of that choke assembly. On some of the lawnengines I have fixed, I replaced the choke cable with a lever that pulled a rod. The lever had the tension built in to hold the choke in whatever position you wanted it in. I have convered many monotors, and iny different ways, to this set up. Leaving the customers with a fucntioning engine. You may be able to make a new way of adjusting the butterfly on the choke, or whatever is there, bu making a plate, and attaching a simple rodd and lever, to turn or push the plunger. Think outside the box. A cut0a0way drawing on how it functions would allow me to give you some reeal ideas. The other option is removing the choked completely, and plugginh the intake as you start it to choke the motor to life, then remove your hand, or whatever else you used. As I posted in another thread, my 1975 cb400F Honda, is a full out race bike with custom smoothbores, no choke. I used a piece of stiff cardboard to plug over the velocity stacks, a couple of kicks, and the bike would start. I would slowly reve it to life, using the paper sheet to partially choke it on particularly cold days. You have options. Think of the end result, and you will find a solution. ;)
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,144 Posts
.

The carb is a VM26SS. In later years they did away with the cable-operated choke and went with a standard choke lever as shown here. I cannot tell if this is a true "choke" or just an enrichment circuit. To me it looks like an enrichener that just dumps more fuel into the engine for starting.

Font Parallel Engineering Auto part Drawing
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
732 Posts
There's no Choke on that, it's an enrichment circuit, it looks that way from the blow apart pic at Partzilla. That means that you could make a metal rod and use that to pull and push the choke into position. You have to get it apart first though. You would think any 2 stroke 175 cc carb would work. I would try and find another carb if this one becomes not repairable. The carb doesn't seem to have the oil injection going through it, so any 175 cc carb would probably work with minimal modifications. I wouldn't take a bike like that if someone gave it to me. There are many free bikes, some that are worth fixing more than others. If you're not putting much cash into this, great, but be careful not to. It's a very old bike, that in reality does not have much value. You could be underwater really fast. :)
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,144 Posts
And yet, Kawi calls it a choke. LOL. Choke has taken on a new meaning of any device that helps start a bike with carbs.
Of course it is not correct terminology and I agree it is an enrichener.

I would look for a good used, or new Mikuni carb like this one. Lots of them out there.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Don’t worry gang! I was able to get the choke free by boiling the carb in water and blasting it with more PB. I was able to use a flathead screwdriver the next day to work it inside of the chamber and get it free. I’ve already got a new cable and plunger on order, as this old one is pretty rallied. Kind of sitting on my hands and doing smaller side project for now until my new parts come in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Was finally able to get back to work on the bike. I got the plunger and spring all fixed up and tried to clear out the exhaust some. Unfortunately though I still can’t get a start. I tried putting a lil bit of gas directly into the cylinder, starter fluid, and roll starting and the most I got was a couple little sputters. I stopped trying after getting one good pop and a small flame shooting out of the carb.

Not really sure where to go from here. I’m getting a little discouraged that I’ve bit off more than I can chew. At what point should I consider just taking it to an expert?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,144 Posts
You have compression, you have spark, and you put gas directly into the cylinder and it did not run.
My money is on ignition timing. If you can find anyone familiar with old Kawis with CDI then it would (in my opinion) be well worth a couple of hours of that person's time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
732 Posts
It does sound like a timing issue. Especially the backfire into the carb. It's a 1977 motorcycle. Who knows what has been done to try and start that bike. The CDI could be messed up. Mil Spec Capacitors have a life of 4000 hours. That time was up a long time ago. like WFO-KZ stated, it would be worth seeing if you could find someone with a working on to try it out. It might be hard though. I wouldn't let someone use my precious CDI to try on their bike. You could check EBAY for one, or something that would work. If the bike is in great shape, and you feel it's worth putting some money into, then go for it I don't know why people don't EBAY hard to find parts.:)

This one on EBAY is the one for your bike, it's $86.49: Link = 1977 Kawasaki KE250 B Enduro K289-1) CDI igniter ignition control unit box #1 | eBay
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,144 Posts
If you have enough patience, you could try repeatedly nudging the timing while trying to start the bike. I cannot remember how long the adjustment slots were but if you moved the plate 1/16" at a time you might find you can get it to run and then you can use a strobe light to time it accurately. Zero cost but lots of time needed.

This assumes that someone had the plate off, without marking its location and now the timing is way off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Is the plug wet after trying to start it? Does choke help (if you fixed it already)? Or does throttle help at all? If nothing helps it at least sputter, its probably likely timing or a very bad air leak. My rotary valve F7 would only start with choke because the carb was clogged, if it had an airleak they tend to do the same.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Welp, got the new (used) CDI on and still no joy. Literally no difference from the previous CDI. Thinking about just parting this thing out at this point. Whatever is wrong with this thing is beyond my ability, and due to the bikes age, none of the shops in my area (which is already pretty remote) will even look at it.

Is there ANYTHING else that could possibly be the culprit????
 
21 - 40 of 55 Posts
Top