[IowanGPR]

1998 Kawi Bayou 220

OK- so after ordering a new starter, choke lever/cable, relay, regulator, etc.. I finally have a working electrical system. I am hopefully done with that for a bit.

There are a lot of details here so I hope someone is willing to read all of this!

To start the story off- Right now I have battery turning the starter, good spark, compression.

I cannot get the motor to start. Had bad gas when I got it so I rebuilt the carb with a moose kit, followed the instructions in the clymer manual and reinstalled the carb. Obviously cleaned the old gas out of the tank, got new fuel.

Before installing starter and fixing everything up- I was able to get it to pop and rev some with starter fluid (don't like using it but I had to see if there was any major problems). Then after the carb rebuild I got it started one day with the pull start, it lugged and bogged but actually ran for about a minute, got up to 3rd gear in the yard and finally quit running.

Yesterday, I couldn't get it to pop and rev with the starter fluid either by spraying it into the cylinder or the front of the carb. It would pop here and there with the starter running. I definately feel like there was some kind of 'fire' in the hole but not enough or too weak to start the motor and keep it running. I also tried to drop gas in the cyl. through the spark hole and still nothing more than a small sputter.

I am a bit of a rookie when it comes to carbs. When the carb was in pieces I adjusted the float just a little bit (less than a milimeter) because i thought it was out of wack but it may not have been. I have the bottom screw(air mix?) on the carb out 1.5 turns and the side screw (idle adjust?) out 3 turns. I also noticed on the main jet there was an o-ring that didn't seem to be in the correct spot, it was showing when the main jet was screwed in. Yesterday I couldn't ever see where there was fuel actually on the plug, but it's really hard for me to tell.

I now understand there is a special way of adjusting the float? Could this be my problem? Is it just my carb tuning that is bad? Could there be a problem with timing? I haven't ever had more than the starter off of the thing (as far as the jug/case/valve cover). Any advice/comments would be greatly appreciated! I'm tired of building this thing it's time to ride it.

THANK YOU!

 

[MrGiggles]

Even if the carb is not adjusted correctly it should still run for a bit or at least sputter on a prime.

How old is the plug? Is the plug wet after cranking?

If you have good spark and compression and the timing is correct then there isn't any reason why it shouldn't run. I would check your ignition and timing situation before the carb. Using that starting fluid may have caused the timing chain to skip a tooth or something.

Have you checked your valve lash? I had a problem with poor starting before and my intake valve was set way too tight and was being held open so it would only sputter and pop.

 

[stu#71]

I think your problem is fuel starvation. The clue is here:
"Then after the carb rebuild I got it started one day with the pull start, it lugged and bogged but actually ran for about a minute, got up to 3rd gear in the yard and finally quit running. "
That sounds like the bowl had fuel in it, you used it up going down the yard, no more replaced it, so it died.
Start by following the flow of fuel from the tank to the carb. Is there a fuel tap? Check it's working ok. Is there an inline filter? Is it blocked? Check the pipes.
If you're sure that fuel is getting to the carb, then go into the carb.
If you're getting a good clean spark, it can only be fuel!

 

[IowanGPR]

Thank you for the input guys. I checked the timing thing first, low and behold the cam sprocket had loosened, and the knuckle that goes into the shaft (similar to a woodruff key) slipped out of where it was supposed to be. The problem now is that the notches for lining up the cam timing seem to be right in the middle of the 2 closest teeth in the sprocket, so could be one way or the other.

After i got that fixed and checked the valve lash, I was able to start it with the choke on, if i let it off it would die, if i gave it throttle it would die. So i rebuilt the carb cleaned it out better than i had the first time, reinstalled the carb and now it does idle without using the choke. it will sit there all day and idle... but when i apply any more than a light touch on the throttle it dies. I am thinking that the float is now my problem? does the bowl not have enough fuel to accelerate ? or is the timing causing the problem? do i need to change the chain by one tooth? I didnt get the chance to play with the air mix screw but it is at 1.5 turns out like i was told in the past was the starting point. I dont think the air mix screw would have let it accelerate but maybe i'm wrong. Thanks so much again, i am getting very close to having a running BAYOU!

Edit- I put a new plug in it and it is gapped correctly.

 

[MrGiggles]

Thank you for the input guys. I checked the timing thing first, low and behold the cam sprocket had loosened, and the knuckle that goes into the shaft (similar to a woodruff key) slipped out of where it was supposed to be. The problem now is that the notches for lining up the cam timing seem to be right in the middle of the 2 closest teeth in the sprocket, so could be one way or the other.

After i got that fixed and checked the valve lash, I was able to start it with the choke on, if i let it off it would die, if i gave it throttle it would die. So i rebuilt the carb cleaned it out better than i had the first time, reinstalled the carb and now it does idle without using the choke. it will sit there all day and idle... but when i apply any more than a light touch on the throttle it dies. I am thinking that the float is now my problem? does the bowl not have enough fuel to accelerate ? or is the timing causing the problem? do i need to change the chain by one tooth? I didnt get the chance to play with the air mix screw but it is at 1.5 turns out like i was told in the past was the starting point. I dont think the air mix screw would have let it accelerate but maybe i'm wrong. Thanks so much again, i am getting very close to having a running BAYOU!

Edit- I put a new plug in it and it is gapped correctly.

How did you set the timing? The correct procedure is as follows.

1. Remove timing chain cover and flywheel inspection plug. (recoil side of engine, black plug with slot)
2. Look down the hole where the inspection plug goes. Rotate the engine until you can see the T on the flywheel, then line it up with the notch on the bottom of the plug threads. The piston is now at TDC.
3. Near the bottom of the left side of the cylinder, there is the cam chain tensioner. it has a "rod" that protrudes and two 10mm bolts that hold it to the cylinder. Once the two bolts are out it will come out easily.
4. On the upper cam sprocket there is a dot on the gear, and a notch on the corner of the head. These two will have to be lined up. If they are not you will have to remove the timing chain and install it correctly. Reverse for assembly.

Note: The tensioner has a funny one-way bearing of sorts that does not let the shaft to go back in when it goes out. There is a 10mm bolt on it that will release the tensioner rod, spring, and bearing when loosened. Loosen the bolt but make sure you hold on to everything. You will have to pull out the bearing, slide it on the shaft all the way it will go, compress the spring with your hand, and then slide everything back into the tensioner housing. You will have to hold the rod in while you tighten the bolt. Once you have it reinstalled on the engine, loosen that 10mm bolt on top and the rod will slide out and put tension on the chain. Tighten it back up and you're good to go.

 

[IowanGPR]

yes, the tensioner is in correctly. i have a feeling something in the carb didn't get cleaned out. What chamber should i be looking for air to go into to push the fuel for off idle operation. I can't seem to track the way the carb is set up to work.

later today i am getting a squirt bottle so i can spray fuel into the airbox side of the carb when i start to throttle and see what the result is. if it is able to increase RPMs this way then i still have a clog in the carb somewhere... just dont know where.

 

[stu#71]

Mmm, I would stick with the carb for the mo as your bike stills needs "timing" even to idle (which you said was ok). If it's idling ok, then when you apply throttle it dies, then it's either getting too much gas, or not enough gas!

Do you have a manual? I would be checking float level, the needle and seat, also the diapragm for pin prick holes and also the jets for blockages.

People will tell you to clean and blow out with compressed air but be careful with this - you can blow out some of the little copper coloured ball bearing things that are there on purpose!

 

[MrGiggles]

Mmm, I would stick with the carb for the mo as your bike stills needs "timing" even to idle (which you said was ok). If it's idling ok, then when you apply throttle it dies, then it's either getting too much gas, or not enough gas!

Do you have a manual? I would be checking float level, the needle and seat, also the diapragm for pin prick holes and also the jets for blockages.

People will tell you to clean and blow out with compressed air but be careful with this - you can blow out some of the little copper coloured ball bearing things that are there on purpose!

I agree, except that 220's don't have a diaphragm carb.

You can used compressed air, but you have to turn your regulator down to <15 PSI.

 

[IowanGPR]

well i didn't use a regulator- so what did i screw up using too much pressure?

 

[stu#71]

Thx for that MrGiggles! I don't have a 220 so am just speaking generally. The rest of my comments would still stand (just ignore the diaphragm bit!)

IowanGPR - the regulator takes the pressure of your air compressor down so you're not using it "at full blast" to dry off your cleaned components. If you use very high pressure air and stick the air gun nozzle down a hole in the carb body, it is possible to blow out little gold coloured ball bearing things that have been placed there by the manufacturer as a "block" on purpose. I forget what they're called now. Hopefully you've not done this.

Lets assume you haven't.

MrGiggles - does he have the same model carb as the 250 Bayou pls? I have a manual for that here so could maybe look up and help?

 

[IowanGPR]

I'm going to look it over to make sure all the exterior holes are still plugged. I am just really needing to know which of the 3 holes in the air chamber are used to mix in the main jet for off idle operations. I really appreciate the assistance bu I know what a regulator does ( i grew up on a farm, worked in a shop all my life, now working for john deere- greatest tractors in the world). I'm not clueless here. I guess I really just dont know how this carburetor works. Something is obviously wrong.

 

[stu#71]

Hi again Iowan. We need to find out what type of carb you have - then we can help you identify the jets. But basically every "hole" jet and orifice needs to be spotlessly clean.

 

[IowanGPR]

Well, guys...

I had a friend help me out today and we were able to set everything straight, get it tuned and it now idles, and will rev up with no problems. one of the things that had me on the wrong steps was that the air mix screw was not in far enough. I screwed it down and thought it was seated, but it wasn't... my friends screwed it in more and found out i was more than 4 turns out. after that we found a timing problem again, reset valves, and she runs.

When it is revved up it has a small grumble or a misfire to it. is this common or do i need to do a little more tuning on the carb?

Is there a set of instructions on the standards for this model of carb for where you are supposed to be setup and go from? I know i've been told 1.5 on the air mix but no standard for the throttle opening if that part is true. I think I am a bit lean but i am not sure why. and why the heck is the air mix screw so hard to get to? ...like people don't want to play with these things.

 

[stu#71]

Great news! and yes having your mixture screw set wrong would totally mess with the correct amount of fuel required!
Glad you got it sorted,
The "correct setting" will be in the manual (you should get one?) but as we don't know exactly what carb you have I can't help you there sorry. But 2-2.5 turns back from being LIGHTLY seated is usually a good starting point and then fine tune from there.