Kawasaki Motorcycle Forums banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
The biker seems to be going about the pace of the traffic. I'd say the car is more at fault...they are going too slow for the conditions, and the biker crashes into the car pretty quickly after it changes lanes (~2 seconds).

People should check not only their blind spots, but a few seconds behind them to see if somebody going faster than them is coming up on the lane they're about to change to. This is especially important if you're going much slower than traffic, as is the case with this car.

However, it's interesting to note that you asked "who is more at fault", implying both parties are at fault. While I agree the biker could have done a better job at lessening the crash, I don't really think he or she is "at fault". The biker should have seen the slowly moving car, and slowed down, so as to not pass it at such a high speed differential. That being said however, I think that technically speaking the car should be at fault, and should pay for any injuries/damages. I'm not sure that's what the law is though...it'd be interesting to see what the US justice system would have to say about this incident.
 

·
Patriot Guardian
Joined
·
28,016 Posts
90% biker's fault.

He was not looking far enough ahead and anticipating that might be happening. MSF 101... Rider-Radar.... You have to look well ahead of where you are.

Time it.... it was 5 seconds from the time the cage first crossed his own lane marking until impact.

The cager MAY have been trying to avoid missing a turn, which is a stupid excuse to be moving that slowly and changing across 2 lanes, but it could have been broken down... in that case, you get to the shoulder while you still have momentum. You do NOT want to push a vehicle out of traffic lanes that are moving that fast.
 

·
Patriot Guardian
Joined
·
28,016 Posts
I'm not sure that's what the law is though...it'd be interesting to see what the US justice system would have to say about this incident.
In most states, the law is that in a lane-change type accident or rear-end collision, if you impact the vehicle behind the "B pillar" (back of the driver's door) you are at fault.
 

·
nu2kawi
Joined
·
2,707 Posts
Stupid move of the driver, but there seem to be enough time for the bike rider to catch what was happening and slow down enough to avoid. There didn't seem to be anything in the way of the bikers view. I think it probably could have been avoided, but I'd place the blame on the driver of the car for making that maneuver. Guessing he didn't see a car but wasn't anticipating a bike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
394 Posts
Legally, the biker is at fault, barring anything like minimum speeds on that road. I, too, think this is an accident the biker could have avoided. That's not to say that the cager is innocent, but it falls onto us to look out for the stupidity of other drivers.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,267 Posts
The car was moving slowly and crossed over the clear center lane. Seems to me, the biker had plenty of time to slow down while he found out what the driver was doing. Instead, it looks as if he kept his speed constant and tried to anticipate that the car would see him and not continue across into his lane. If he would have slowed, he could have sucessfully gotten past the car in the center lane.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
541 Posts
i dunno if you can totally blame the rider, obviously he was going way too fast, but the driver DID cross over two lanes in a very short amount of time, either way NEITHER of them were paying attention and this definitl could have been avoided.
 

·
The Widows Son
Joined
·
9,126 Posts
Clear cut case of terminal stupidity on both parts... That dimwit shouldnt have crossed 2 lanes of traffic in slowmo - just go up and take the next uturn if you missed your exit for christ's sake. No one is that important.

On the other hand, the rider should have seen this unfolding and reacted accordingly - there was plenty of room in his lane to maneuver but he got target fixation syndrome and plowed right into what he should have been trying to avoid.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,098 Posts
Not enough video to conclude but I after viewing it a few times, it appears the rider was moving with the same rate of speed as the others. Therefore, either everyone was speeding or they were all driving the limit. Also, there was only one car ahead of the rider which passed the driver making the right turn before they made the turn. It, IMO, appeared the rider provided enough distance between himself and the car ahead.

By the way the rider hit the the left rear side of the car, which was close to the line separating the two right lanes, my guess is the rider was in the far right lane and tried to move to the left as the idiot driver was moving right.

IMO, I don't blame the rider. a car could have just as easily hit the driver turning right but it happened to be a bike. I blame the driver for trying to make a right turn from the third lane of a four lane road. That's just plain idiocy.
 

·
The Widows Son
Joined
·
9,126 Posts
Not enough video to conclude but I after viewing it a few times, it appears the rider was moving with the same rate of speed as the others. Therefore, either everyone was speeding or they were all driving the limit. Also, there was only one car ahead of the rider which passed the driver making the right turn before they made the turn. It, IMO, appeared the rider provided enough distance between himself and the car ahead.

By the way the rider hit the the left rear side of the car, which was close to the line separating the two right lanes, my guess is the rider was in the far right lane and tried to move to the left as the idiot driver was moving right.

IMO, I don't blame the rider. a car could have just as easily hit the driver turning right but it happened to be a bike. I blame the driver for trying to make a right turn from the third lane of a four lane road. That's just plain idiocy.
Watching it again I would have to agree with you that the rider was probably in the far right lane - I just cant figure out why his trajectory stays stright from the moment he gets in frame till impact unless he had target fixation on the car...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
895 Posts
At least the biker wasn't killed eh? He crawled out of the way of other traffic which after an impact like that is a good sign!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,875 Posts
90% biker's fault.

He was not looking far enough ahead and anticipating that might be happening. MSF 101... Rider-Radar.... You have to look well ahead of where you are.

Time it.... it was 5 seconds from the time the cage first crossed his own lane marking until impact.
I'm with Rich on this one. When I'm on the road it's: 2 second "Immediate Zone", 6 second "Anticipate Zone" and 12 second "Riding Zone". Notice that the rider didn't even try to stop when he made impact (no skid mark or smoke from the rear tire).

It's how I avoided hitting a mo-fo in an old van conversion Monday morning on my way to work. The dumbsh!t pulls out of a driveway from my right to cross 3 lanes to make a left into my opposing traffic. I was transitioning from lane 2 to one when I noticed the idiot pulling out...he kept going. I swear to you he was doing his best to time my impact into him. The van just kept inching into my lane. I two-fingered the brakes fairly hard and tried to "gingerly use the rear brakes...unfortunately, to my shock/horror, I locked the rear wheel and I felt the rear fishtail slightly. I knew that I wouldn't make impact so about 20 feet from the van I released the front brakes completely and the rear tire kicked back into alignment and I released the rear brake.

As the van entered the center merging lane to my left, I rolled past him slowly as I cussed him out and gave him the finger. Of course all he could do was give me a look of stupidity while shrugging his shoulders like he was saying, "What can you do about it? It happened, oh well...". I really wish that I would've had one of those small bats that you get from "Dodger fan appreciation night"...I would've beat his head into a bloody pulp.

Point being that in the video, the guy in the car--at a minimum--was not looking carefully when he was crossing lanes like that (or maybe being stupid...or both), but as riders we know that we have to be triple-vigilant when riding. That means respecting those 3 three "riding zones" that the MSF course taught us.
 

·
Official BTK Forum Pot Stirrer
Joined
·
37,387 Posts
i'm not going to presume to know the full details of this or who is at fault

but I will say that I know what two words the rider said just before impact

one was OH, the other rhymes with spit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
I agree with Rich. Based on the limited info available to us, I'd say the motorcycle was mostly at fault.

I recently came up behind an old couple going 1/2 the speed limit while rapidly changing lanes moving from left to right on a 6 lane (3 each direction), 45 mph road. I was in the right lane, planning to turn right 15 seconds ahead. I almost laid on the horn when he came over in front of me, but as I had no trouble avoiding him, and as honking usually just confuses old people, I didn't.

Once I turned, in my mirror I saw him turn and pull over. Turns out he had a flat, and needed to get out of traffic to safely pull over.

I went back and asked if he needed help changing his tire, borrow my cell, etc. He didn't, but I was glad I didn't honk or yell at him!

With luck, we'll all be old one day too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,098 Posts
Watching it again I would have to agree with you that the rider was probably in the far right lane - I just cant figure out why his trajectory stays stright from the moment he gets in frame till impact unless he had target fixation on the car...
Good point. My guess, trying to put myself into that situation, would be fear of going down or sliding and/or losing a leg opposed to taking it head on or maybe getting clipped by the corner of the car. But who knows, many thoughts go through in a second.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,098 Posts
I agree with Rich. Based on the limited info available to us, I'd say the motorcycle was mostly at fault.
Then by that account, all drivers who make bonehead moves are never or rarely at fault. It is us riders who are at fault for not being 100% attentive.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,875 Posts
Then by that account, all drivers who make bonehead moves are never or rarely at fault. It is us riders who are at fault for not being 100% attentive.
Only when you take into account that Rich counted five seconds between the start of the lane changing and the rider making impact is when jonl is correct. If the rider was looking/paying attention to the riding zones, he would've at least tried to stop. I don't think that the typical rider (me included) would have the presence of mind to swerve out of the way al a "Trinity" from The Matrix. I probably would've hit the car also, but I would've been squeezing the brakes like a mo-fo.

Believe me, if that white car was going with the flow of traffic with the bike being two lanes over with only about two car lengths space to work with when the car swerves two lanes over, we'd all be in agreement that the driver should be hung.

Yeah, the driver created the situation but from the video, it really doesn't look like the rider did much to avoid the accident.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top