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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought a "chrome" battery two years ago that is winding down on cranking power. Has anyone here used a lithium battery? I checked my charging system, 14 volts running.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Well I couldn't wait so one of these gel batteries is on the way and I'll give a short and long term review.
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If my bike was in winter climates where the riding season is short I would have shelled out for a Lithium, from what I read they hold up better in storage.
 

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Aircraft use gel batteries a lot. The FBO is the one that regularly makes sure then are up to charge, you will never get away from using a battery tender. Usually the ones for GEL batteries say they are made for that. You have to make sure though as if the charger does not specificy Gel Battery you could overheat it and it will crack. I did notice those planes sit out there for what seems ever, and always start right up. I never had a problem with a dead battery on a plane I rented when I flew. ;)
 

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Yep, lithium battery here. My FJR1300 is 4 cyl, liquid cooled and can sometimes be a bear starting. Plus it really hates having a dying battery- all kinds of little electrical gremlins start showing up. This year I went for Antigravity's lithium and man, what a difference! Spins up faster, starts right up. The 2nd best I've used is Motobatt AGM. Good choice there too.
 

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I think I could make a Lithium battery for my ZZR1200.
I'd use 18650 batteries, like extra large 'AA' batts, joined together, after all, thats what Tesla do! They do need about 20,000 per car though 😂
Each 18650 is 3.7V. I've found the cheapest way to buy them is to buy a Chinese LED torch, 4x batts and a charger for about £14 online, half the price of just the batts from other sources!
4 x 3.7V is 14,80 V, I reckon 8 batts wired in series/parallel might just work....:eek:
 

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I am not sure what folks like Antigravity do, but Tesla cells are highly protected with isolation circuits and are liquid cooled to prevent overheating and fires. You may want to consider/research this before slapping a bunch of cells together.
Lithium can be dangerous.
 

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I am not sure what folks like Antigravity do, but Tesla cells are highly protected with isolation circuits and are liquid cooled to prevent overheating and fires. You may want to consider/research this before slapping a bunch of cells together.
Lithium can be dangerous.
Totally agree, but, like I did say, Tesla use thousands of individual 18650's, to make 'megawatts' of power. I want to make a simple battery that will power next to nothing, the main load will be the starter motor. I would want something that will also power camping kit, backed up by a small solar panel. I've looked into this with a lot of caution, as you say Lithium cells can be unstable, I did have one explode inside my LED torch, whilst crawling through a small, dark service trench. I was deaf in one ear for days and my hand got branded, as well as being left in total darkness 😂
As for camping and exploring far away places, its quite easy to set up 2 Lithium cells along with a split charger relay, that would weigh maybe 20% of an equal lead acid set up (y)
 

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Maybe the new ones Teslas are liquid cooled, but the older ones were glued together with a proprietary epoxy that made recycling them virtually impossible. I think if you have (or made) a simple spot wlder to weld straps in place for the ends, a battery just used for starting the bike woldn't be a big deal, and you could make it fit wherever you wishh to put it. You'd have fo get a Lithium Batettery charger that charges it at the proper rate for the battery, I have no idea what that is. It shouldn't be hard to find out. The charger would have the monitor the state of the atteries while charging to prevent overheating. I have conventional batteries lasting me around 5 years, which is good enough for me. I charge them at 1.8 volts and can check then with a hydrometer. ;)
 

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Up until last year, I had a few radio controlled Truggies, they ran on Li-ion batteries, and I had two 'smart' chargers to keep them going.
These chargers could be set up to work with most batteries, such as li-ion, mercury, lead acid etc. andcostabout £30,readily available from radio control shops and online
 

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Very interesting cooling concept. The way those batteries are made almost look like a Capacitor, same type of winding. They have so many cars that are becoming worthless once the battery packs go bad, so many not able to be economically recycled, (so they're not), it's about time he responded. I think Mr. Musk would sell Tesla Cars if the right buyer with the right amount of cash came threw. His love is Space, and Space X. Maybe some of that technology will trickle down into the autos?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Purpose made lithium ion batteries for motorcycles are available with overcharge protection and reserve jump start capability, for the cost of $200-300 I believe it isn't cost or time efficient to make a homemade array that may damage modern motorcycle charging and electrical components. My .02 cents
 

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Tesla battery packs come with an 8 year warranty that guarantees capacity will never go below 70%. Less than 70% capacity becomes inconvenient for the car owner but still very good for use in a Power Wall. It is expected that at the end of their life, most Tesla car batteries will get re-purposed into Tesla Power Walls, so recycling comes after many years of use in a Power Wall.

Current warranty however is only for 160,000 kms or 8 years whichever comes first and that would be a concern for high milers. There are reports are that the packs should be good for 300,000 to 500,000 miles. They are currently working on the million mile battery. If they achieve that, all I can say is WOW.
 

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I agree, the warranties are great, but the number of cars that lose their battery pack from something that could not be avoided, piercing and bricking the whole pack is high. GN's Ultima system will bypass the damaged cell, and each Stainless Steel cell is available individually. The battery packs won't brick, the computer just cuts damaged cells out of the system. That way you still have a functionig vehicle. YouTube is full of Tesla's that people have dropped ICE drive trains into. They get the Tesla's dirt cheap. the heavy duty brakes and suspension means the cars can easily handle a 350 V8 thrown in, with all else that is needed. Some of these cars look really awesome. ;)


 

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That is a cool car and keeps the EV out of the junkyard.

If something penetrates the 1/4" aluminum protection sheet then yeah, very bad things can happen to the batteries.
Tesla does have a way to isolate any bad cells but I am not sure how they do it. There is a detailed video on this that you would likely understand with your electronics background but from me it was a big whoosh as most of it went over my heard. 😁
 

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Tesla can bypass them but they will not repair them. They make you buy a new battery pack. I guess there is, or should be insurance for that, but I have read many stores where very small holes, or dents, from rollling over boulders that roll off a hill, and at night, sometimes you can't see these things in time, if at all. Tesla makes you or your insurance buy the whole pack, and man, they are expensive. Personally I think the should section off their batteries so that you can replace the place that gets hits most, and everything I have read and seen pictures of, point to the front bottom. That would make the vehicle more economically feasible. I'll never have the kind of money needed to buy any car new. I have never purchased a new car, though my wife worked for Mercedes-Benz, for 12 years, and we had a new one of those leased so cheap, you'd be a fool not to take it. They paid for insurance and maintenance. They actually picked up the car where she worked, and left her a courtesy car till they were done servicing it, and returned the car to her. I was at the time restoring Mercedes Benz automobiles. I met the President of Mercedes at that time, and he was very interested in the `975 450 SLC car I had. Those cars won the Paris to Dakar race 4 years in a row, bone stock. I got to know those cars well. Mercedes only uses virgin steel, so they always come apart easy, and the weld easy to.

Tesla does not, may not be able to, do the fit and finish that Mercedes does on their least expensive cars. Of course, Mercedes has had a lot longer experience at it. I'd take an ICE Mercedes over a Tesla everyday. I still own a '73 450SL I would like to restore. I purchased it for $6000 miles and put 110K miles on it before parking it. It still runs, but needs rust repair work. My son wants it. My wife told me to sell it, then, and I still don't know why, she changed her mind. It is from the 1st batch of 450SL's sold in the U.S.

The new Mercedes E.V. is supposed to be the slipperiest car in the world. I don't even know anybody who can afford these things, or even new cars or trucks period. I see a lot of people lease cars, but they are always caught up and broke. I haven't made a car payment in 20 years, or more. I buy them outright, fix what's wrong, then usually sell them for not too much less than what I paid. Used cars are quite a commodity now. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The automobile was once a conveyance for the wealthy until Henry Ford's Model T emerged and across the Atlantic there was a consolidation of four cottage coach builders into Auto Union (what is now Audi) and Porsche's VW project began. I see the EV as a return to elite transportation with the general population suffering less mobility full stop off topic had to get that out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Tesla can bypass them but they will not repair them. They make you buy a new battery pack. I guess there is, or should be insurance for that, but I have read many stores where very small holes, or dents, from rollling over boulders that roll off a hill, and at night, sometimes you can't see these things in time, if at all. Tesla makes you or your insurance buy the whole pack, and man, they are expensive. Personally I think the should section off their batteries so that you can replace the place that gets hits most, and everything I have read and seen pictures of, point to the front bottom. That would make the vehicle more economically feasible. I'll never have the kind of money needed to buy any car new. I have never purchased a new car, though my wife worked for Mercedes-Benz, for 12 years, and we had a new one of those leased so cheap, you'd be a fool not to take it. They paid for insurance and maintenance. They actually picked up the car where she worked, and left her a courtesy car till they were done servicing it, and returned the car to her. I was at the time restoring Mercedes Benz automobiles. I met the President of Mercedes at that time, and he was very interested in the `975 450 SLC car I had. Those cars won the Paris to Dakar race 4 years in a row, bone stock. I got to know those cars well. Mercedes only uses virgin steel, so they always come apart easy, and the weld easy to.

Tesla does not, may not be able to, do the fit and finish that Mercedes does on their least expensive cars. Of course, Mercedes has had a lot longer experience at it. I'd take an ICE Mercedes over a Tesla everyday. I still own a '73 450SL I would like to restore. I purchased it for $6000 miles and put 110K miles on it before parking it. It still runs, but needs rust repair work. My son wants it. My wife told me to sell it, then, and I still don't know why, she changed her mind. It is from the 1st batch of 450SL's sold in the U.S.

The new Mercedes E.V. is supposed to be the slipperiest car in the world. I don't even know anybody who can afford these things, or even new cars or trucks period. I see a lot of people lease cars, but they are always caught up and broke. I haven't made a car payment in 20 years, or more. I buy them outright, fix what's wrong, then usually sell them for not too much less than what I paid. Used cars are quite a commodity now. :)
Those of us who can repair and rebuild are now at a distinct advantage (so long as this worn body continues functioning) ;)
 

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Don't get me wrong. I love ICE vehicles and am sad that they will go the way of the dinosaur. Predictions are that by 2028 1 in every 3 cars sold will be EV. Costs will come down on EV's and batteries and the technology will improve. Quite possibly Kawasakian's suggestion of segmenting the batteries will happen. Who knows? But in the meantime the ability to isolate one bad cell, roughly the size of a AA battery is a decent approach IMHO.

And C-130 is right. We are so far off topic now I am also full stop with an apology to C-130 for hijacking his thread.
 
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