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Army Strong. Ride Long
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587 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm dying to get it on the bike but that will have to wait until the weekend. Anyone ever mess with the accelerator Pump Software that comes with it? Their software looks awesome. Can I screw up my bike by experimenting? I mean hurt the bike where it will cost me to get it fixed? My bike is stock when it comes to the air intake and the exhaust (other than a K&N Air filter) so I'm going to go with the stock mapping. Even that shows some added fuel in the mid-range. I don't know if I ever get my RPMS above 4000 so don't know if I'll ever use the upper range. All comments welcome.
 

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Not A Wild Hog
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291 Posts
You will like the PCIII, but will like it even better when you install an air kit. In combination, that will really open it up.
My understanding is the accelerator pump is mostly for the HD's.
 

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Patriot Guardian
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28,016 Posts
I just activated the AP utility last weekend. Rode about 10 miles and it felt good... maybe a little less "rattle" on startup from a dead stop and a little more responsive.

Running stock intake and pipes, it's going to be hard to hurt anything as long as you don't mess with negative numbers... as long as all values are at "0" or higher, you're only adding fuel.

Add too much, and you can wash the oil from the cylinder walls and contaminate the oil, but I don't think casual experimenting is going to make it THAT rich.
 

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Not A Wild Hog
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291 Posts
I just activated the AP utility last weekend. Rode about 10 miles and it felt good... maybe a little less "rattle" on startup from a dead stop and a little more responsive.

Running stock intake and pipes, it's going to be hard to hurt anything as long as you don't mess with negative numbers... as long as all values are at "0" or higher, you're only adding fuel.

Add too much, and you can wash the oil from the cylinder walls and contaminate the oil, but I don't think casual experimenting is going to make it THAT rich.
What is the AP utility actually for, Rich?
 

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Army Strong. Ride Long
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587 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
You will like the PCIII, but will like it even better when you install an air kit. In combination, that will really open it up.
My understanding is the accelerator pump is mostly for the HD's.
I want to do that but really don't want the loud sound of an after market pipe. They all sound like they would give me a headache. I actually like the quiet of the metrics.
 

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Nice to hear some good words on the PC III, I love mine, but at the other forum I spend time on it is not a popular choice and is pretty much criticized all the time, they love the TFI. The PCIII is by far the best option IMHO.
 

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Patriot Guardian
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What is the AP utility actually for, Rich?
Accelerator pump.
Assume it emulates a carb by giving an extra shot of fuel when the throttle is opened... more fuel for a faster opening.
This allows for a richer mixture when needed and the correct mixture when "cruising" at the same RPM/throttle setting.
 

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Patriot Guardian
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Nice to hear some good words on the PC III, I love mine, but at the other forum I spend time on it is not a popular choice and is pretty much criticized all the time, they love the TFI. The PCIII is by far the best option IMHO.
PCIII criticism comes from four issues...

1 - It's about $50-$100 more

2 - To "properly" tune it, the bike needs a dyno run and custom map. The problem is that many tuners tune ONLY for performance and fuel economy takes a dump. Some tuners don't really know what they're doing and you just get a bad tune.
Now... TECHNICALLY... a TFI/Cobra Fi2000R needs a dyno run for optimal tuning as well. In reality, using my TFI pot settings or PCIII map on your bike is no different... altitude, temperature, fuel, stock TPS setting... a lot of variables from bike to bike. For optimal performance and fuel economy, each bike needs it's own "custom" tune.

3 - On earlier units, people had issues with the installation. In addition to the connection to the injectors, the PCIII also requires a connection to the TPS (still true for some models such as the 1500). This was confusing for some people, plus, following the instructions, they would use the 3M Quick-Taps. It's a matter of when, not if, a quick tap will fail. If it's on spotlights or a GPS, it's not a big deal. If it's on the EFI system, all hell breaks loose and it can be a pain to track down because it WILL be intermittent.
The current units for most modern bikes simply plug into the harness ahead of the injectors AND TPS... so installation is quite simple.
But the TFI had the same issues when all they made was a "universal" in 2005.

4 - Dynojet was sued by the California Air Resources Board about the same time they were going after Jesse James and Boyd Coddington. Their response was to make the "-EX" version, which is CARB and EPA compliant for emissions-controlled street vehicles. They still sell the non "-EX" version, but it is intended for use on off-highway vehicles only.
There are no restrictions on the SALE of the non-EX version, but if a shop installs one on a street-registered vehicle, they can be fined a pretty hefty amount.
The -EX version is not adjustable at RPM levels below 3,000 and throttle settings below 40%.
Again... this is also an issue with the TFI and Cobra units. There hasn't been heavy publicity, but there are now two versions of all of the major fuel processors, one for off-highway and one for CARB/EPA compliance.


So... in a nutshell, all of the negatives other than the initial purchase price impact both the PCIII and the pot-based units.... in exchange for pots that basically emulate a carb's 3 primary jet structures, the PCIII gives you this kind of programming flexibility...

 

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You hit them all on the head, every excuse they have. Personally I think the $50 to $100 more is worth it for the flexibility but that is just me :)

Everyone wants the performance with out any cost (for dyno specifically). There is a perception that doing the intake, exhaust, and processor will give great mileage with all the extra performance. I always thought where was a trade off. Max performance = bad mileage or good mileage = basically stock performance (or a bit better). Maybe that is not correct, but seems to make sense to me.
 

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Patriot Guardian
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Yes and no.

If the engine is made to be more efficient, it is possible to have both performance and fuel economy gains, BUT, if the rider USES the newfound power, then of course economy will suffer.

Likewise, if the engine is running at less than peak performance due to running either too rich or too lean, then proper tuning will also result in improved economy.
 

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The the vertical axis is obviously engine RPM. What is the horizontal axis? If it is throttle position, then I could see some real advantage by using the Accelerator pump feature and figure out what cruise throttle position number is at cruise RPM and lean that out a bit for ecomomy but have the AP add fuel if more throttle is asked for. Everywhere else on the chart could be left slightly rich for performance but really cut back fuel at that specific cruise RPM and Throttle position.

Is that how it works?

TIA,

rick
 

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Army Strong. Ride Long
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Discussion Starter #13
I believe the horizontal axis is percentage of throttle opening.
 

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Patriot Guardian
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Bingo.

To play with the map effectively on-street takes a fair amount of work, and a tach.
Put a marker on the throttle and note the positions (the PCIII software tells you where on the map it is running, so it's easy to calibrate your tape).
Hop on the road and find out where you cruise.

Say you're at 3000 @ 40%.
Lean that out a bit.... you might find that you end up cruising at 20%. Okay, now there is no need to further tweak the 40% setting... move to the 20% setting and tweak that.

Ya... talking MANY test rides, at various speeds to tune in the cruise areas from 2250 to 3250 (about 80mph).
 
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