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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ZX-2R
Rants&Raves Specialist

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RANTS&RAVES
Still on the Kawasaki 248cc motorcycles available in USA

Come on Kawasaki, USA...Get onboard and real with your Products! We have many great bikes available from Kawasaki, yet we find that some of them are not available to us here in the USA. IS it the FEAR of walking up to the CEO of Kawasaki USA and talking to him as a Dealer, or an Executive within the Corporation that makes them afraid to suggest that the Outdated Ninja250R, that will live on for decades, be replaced with something like the ZZR-250? Is it right that countries ALL around the world and even in our own contenent have the bike yet we can't? We put the Kawasaki name on the Suzuki for a cruiser/battleship, why not look at other Foriegn countries and ask them about performance, fuel economy , repair costs, efficiency, and differences between very similar bikes. Why bring an old bike into the USA the ZX-6 and call it the New ZZR-600 for 2005? Is Suzuki, Honda, Yamaha, hysong(?), anyone holding back on the market in the USA?

This part is a reproduction of something I wrote earlier, but is the RANT and a RAVE BOTH:
Look at our own "Kawasaki USA" as an example for adding the product...they won't even add another 250 (ZZR-250, ZZ-R250) 248cc to our own country and support it as a genuine sportbike...With an aluminum chassis, better tail light, and even 17" wheels, better fairing...c'mon...we have the same old rolled cold steel tube frames that we have had since the begining. You want to change the big buck "ticket" items, then sure thay are interested in selling them to the "General Public". Tell me that the general public is able to use all the power of a ZX-6RR or ZX-6R, or anything larger in a Sportbike and I will argue with you. I know hundreds of people out on the forum that are riding that would tell you that their riding skills are less than what the bike is capapble of performing. I'm not picking on our Forum, PLEASE don't misunderstand my direction here, it is just that sportbikes are capable of things that most of us are not allowed or capable of doing on our streets, highways or even Interstates with a 70MPH Federally Set MAXIMUM SPEED LIMIT that is posted every so many yards, or miles. Perhaps on the tracks we might be able to use some of this awesome power...come on, 80MPH in first and then you still have 5 more gears(?), but them why would Kawasaki put on lights, turnsignals, horns, centerstands, sidestands...come on...Please understand that this 250 issue is as big for me as it is for those that HAVE to have a ZX-10, ZX-6R, a Harley, or just have to have a Cruiser. I want a serious 250 motorcycle; and Kawasaki has the equipment, the technology, the parts, everything it needs already in place to bring one to the USA and still they refuse to do so. I'm UPSET beyond words! Still I won't buy anything new unless it has the Kawasaki Label on it. So what if they share R&D with Suzuki, or even IF it was YAMAHA/HONDA/SUZUKI/URAL/APIRILIA/DUCATI?Whatever...Put it out and we...we citizens of the USA will absolutely buy them...They might as well sell the Ninja250R/EX250's to all the beginners and leave the new and improved 250's to the more experienced riders. AS you can see by my RANTS&RAVES the 250 NOT OFFERED in the USA, I believe it is superior to what we have. It is a better machine at least in fact that it already has advanced well beyond our 250 that is available for us right now. It has an Aluminum Chassis, 17" wheels, a better rear lighting system, a nicer looking fairing, and all the parts are already made for it...it is already on the market, not only around the world and different contenents but even on our own...look no farther than Canada...just look on the Official Kawasaki Website... The RAVE...It's a bike that seriously gets your attention. the flowing lines of the fairing, the taillight has the red center tail/brake lens and the outer portions of the same tail-light assembly has the amber lenses (see the 2004 ZZR-600)...so you don't have those ugly mole like protrusions hanging out ther to get broken off, or upsetting the airflow, and creating further aerodynamic (parasitic) drag. It's a very nice looking Sportbike that WE deserve to have here in the USA! Sure Kawasaki won't miss a chance to mark them up beyond what the intro is on the Ninja250R, but just look at the difference! It LOOKS faster just setting still! OH, I'd give up a few of my doorstop computers, just to have one, and buy it from Beartooth Kawasaki. I'd fly up and I'd personally ride the thing back to Kansas and be tickled with every bump that I hit on the way home... Come on Beartooth, Kawasaki step in and send us some PM's or bulk out an Email so you are not getting into trouble with Kawasaki USA, or tell me in a personal phone call so nothing can be traced back to you...HOW do we get this bike into the USA Market? FORUM FRIENDS...UNITE!!! Flood Beartooth Kawasaki, with phone calls, emails, forum space asking the same question...send them snail mail, UNITE...Make this happen...do we have the power? DO WE HAVE THE POWER??? Or does Kawasaki USA just get to set around and not believe that the bike just won't sell here like it does in every other country?
I'm the FORUM Rants&Raves Specialist, now you know why!

Why send this through Beartooth Kawasaki; because Beartooth can step up to the plate with a platform, with the international forum in place and present the facts and figures to Kawasaki USA in California. Maybe Beartooth isn't the largest dealer in the country, but it controls the entire forum that is used around the world...literally. Perhaps Kawasaki USA isn't as capable as some small town (Red Lodge, MT.) dealership and its use of an international website!

_________________
ZX-2R

Still waiting for a Kawasaki


3/29/53
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Gee, I'm Floored with the Fourms Enthusiasm

Perhaps the fourm doesn't FEEL anymore...Perhaps you are all numb from working all day, but a little help here would be appreciated!!! I spill my Guts and all I get is some looky-loos? GET INVOLVED!!! SAY SOMETHING!!! KAWASAKI RULES and it will Continue to rule as long as it continues to move in a forward direction...Come on get on board here...okay I'm pushing a lot, but don't any of you agree with anoything that I have to say or offer? Am I the one way out in left field while the othrer companies are racing off of the playing field? We have the South Koreans coming on board with bikes that they made for Suzuki, the SV650. YOu think that they are just spitting in the wind to see if maybe perhaps ther eisa market in America for a cheaper made bike...Come on, get real, get involved, support the issue at hand...the 248cc bike (1/4 Liter) is ripe for the riders of America...it can be refined, honed, and be competitive...or should I just shut down and let my keyboard collect dust. Maybe we should ALL just park our bikes and give up. The industry can't go any farther, no sense in pushing for a 250cc 4 stroke motorcycle...the industry can't and the world can't handle another one. Perhaps the same is true for all cruisers, all ZX-10R's, all ZX6 models, maybe it's time to push in the keyboard drawer, and just watch television. Maybe that's okay with YOU, but it is NOT with ME! I'm UPSET with my fellow Fourm Friends, Family, Feuding Fellow Fighters, Females, I say "ALL UNITE", am I asking to much? Is it not a good cause? Am I Flunking in some fabric of Flaw in my futile attempt for Fabrication of a future fun flying Fling machine? If you are to ashamed or embarrassed to write in the forum then email me...I'm hurt!
 

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I'm certain that there are more people that share your interest. The challenge is to find them. And it may be tough. The current trend is "bigger is better". Cruisers are going gigantic. Sport bike makers are showing prototypes of 1500's and larger. Bikes & SUV's. Large rules the road and the trends at the moment. I'm not saying there isn't a market for smaller bikes. I'm sure there is. Good luck convincing the manufacturers of this however...
 

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from articles i've read in the past, the 250r and it's big brother the 500r were both built to fill in the lower end of the sport bike market in the US.

people wanted a small bike that was reasonably fast that they could learn on, that was reliable, and wouldn't break the bank. the construction of both says so. steel frames, limited (if any) suspension adjustments, and an engine that has varied little from it's days of youth. both bikes have changed to keep pace wit hthe bottom barrel technology of the day, such as front/rear disc brakes, better aerodynamics (tho the 250 lags in that respect) and so on.

kawasaki built what they needed to to fill in that gap in the small sportbike category, and both still sell reasonably well, so it's possible that kawasaki doesn't see a need to throw a more expensive 250 in the mix.

sure, 17 inch rims would be nice, and wouldn't cost much to put on a 250r. but an aluminum frame would add a lot of cost to the bike, which is made up on the price tag. would upping the price $1000 be worth the 30 or 40 pound weight loss? the same goes with a better looking/performing fairing, engine, and so on. by the time you do all that, there's not going to be too much of a difference between the 250 and the 500. at that point, people are going to be more attracted to the 500, as it's twice the displacement, for not too much more cash. as ken mentioned, the current marketing trend is "bigger is better".

personally, i like the 250 the way it is, despite it's odd styling and 16 inch rims. having ridden both a 250r, and a 500r, and having the chance to cpmpare the two side by side, i can say this: if it weren't for all the highway riding i do, in addition to backroads-twisties, i would take the current 250r over my 500r, as it is so much fun, for such a low price.

the only thing i would ask kawasaki to do regarding the current 250r available in the US, is revise the fairing to be more stylish and aerodynamic to protect the rider, and put 17 inch rims on it versus the 16's currently supplied on it.

i would be thrilled to see kawasaki put out a race-oriented 250 in the US, don't get me wrong. but i wouldn't buy it over what's allready available, considereing the cost. i'm sure the kawi marketers are asking "does the US market REALLY NEED another 250?"

my rant for the day, i await the flames.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It takes a few

It only takes a few moments of everybodies time to SUPPORT my position with this issue. should everyone reply with a response that larger is better especially right now than they are turning the blind eye to the future when we no longer have fuels like we have now. Already the big bikes are running to lean because of the restrictions put upon them...this is a Known fact with both the Kawasaki and suzuki badged bike that share everything but the same manufactures label on it. EVERYONE knows it...Kawasaki, SUZUKI, it is even eating away at Harley...hey just sell afternmarket kits..all we have to do is get them legal into DOT requirements, what you do to them afterwards is your own thing...not for long...gas is already over $2.00/gallon...so I'll just keep riding, add larger jetts and make it breathe better...I a only asking that those of you riding 2300 Triumphs back me by writing in a short note to the forum...you know the old man (51) ZX-2R, may have a valid point and perhaps we could beat out the S. Koreans in some of their own works...I don't want a Korean bike, and if WE the Forum don't do anything aboiut it it will be like giving our second amendment right to bear arms away...come on how many times do we have to go through history na dnot learn form what we can do instead of what we can't do? WE CAN...If you only care enough to write in a short statement...If not you will find us old guys talking about the way two strokes use to rule the road..you ever ridden a 750 Kawasaki 3 cylinder 2 stroke on the road or on the track? Probably not...they don't allow many 2 strokes on the road if any any more...ever ridded the Kawasaki 500 2 stroke? Why do I keep on trying...some of you will never know the joys of having the handlebars ripped out from under you at 90MPH as the bike tries to wheelie over when it hits its power band...IF you think I am joking or you don't believe me just ask...ask some people that you think have more credability than this old man...I don't mind being kicked around as long as you find and believe in the TRUTH...the TRUTH is we are losing hte battle and some people believe the road n front of them is as wide open as the interstates that rule right now...I can remember when we had speed limits of over 70MPH...I remember passing police cars in the right lane doing 90 an never even getting a strange look what-so-ever...I remember when Buicks were larger than todays SUV's when we had real trucks on the road, when our Chargers, Chevelle SS, and GTO's and Mustangs had motors that would runMustangs with 429's, 428's 427's, Buick had a 455, I can remember when we had chevys with 427's, 454's, 409, 402, 396...yeh, I can remember the Nova that had a toyota body with a crappy inline four, pinto's, vega's, opel GT's, corvairs that would kick a corvette's butt right from the factory...Okay...enough,,,just Please write in and suggest taht perhaps I could be right and that it sure wouldn't hurt to do some work on what we already have in this contenent, but not yet in the is country. THe zzr-250 with fuel injection, underseat exhaust, all aluminum chassis, adjustable air/hydraulic suspension, on the fly...ZX-6R/perhaps maybe a new model 250 that incorporates all the technological advances that the 6 has...and while we are at it lets do something with the outdated 500RA true ZX-5R with all the tricks added in...we don't have to do all the mapping to the bikes to make them all hotrods.....some of us may want it...others may not...I'd be happy with a250r that would kick todays 500R's butt in flash...okay it isn't happening yet...it may never happen unles we make a stand
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
SEE CANADA

Go to KAWASAKI and look at the Canadian ZZr-250 or ZZ-R250...same 248cc motor same tranny, aluminum chassis 17" wheels and tires...they already exist! Same price when converted to $US...look at the chassis, swingarm, fairing/windscreen, tires, wheels, look at the specs for the bike...WAKE UP AMERICA!!! KAWASAKI USA doesn't care or is it that we are just now aware of it because we have access to computers???
 

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i should clarify that bigger might be the current trend, but i do not exactly agree with it. i know the gas prices are high, it cost me over US $9.00 to fill up my tank the other day. that's why i'm happy my bike gets 50+mpg around town.

where i'm at (flagstaff AZ) the dealers can't keep the small bikes (600cc or smaller) in stock, and they can't sell the big bikes (750cc and up). they end up dealer-trading to other dealers that have the exact opposite problem.

talking to the dealers here, it seems that small towns/cities like mine sell small bikes, and big cities sell big bikes. now, there are a lot more big cities with dealers than there are small towns with dealers, so guess who has more clout in the corporate world?

it's a fact that most people who want a streetbike want a fast bike, which means a big bike. i know a lot of people on these forums are not like that, but a lot of people i know/hear about are.

once again, i would be thrilled to see another smaller bike on the market... i would even try to get a test drive on it. small bikes have a number of advantages over larger bikes, and not many people see those.

i guarantee you in the next few years, we'll probably be seeing this "bigger is better" trend dissappearing, and smaller bikes will be coming in force.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
BIKES

I'd still like to have the ZZR-250, and then for longer rides something with more leg room to make the misle melt away a litle faster, although legally you could do that with a small 250 anyway...just puts more buzz in your pants. I'm working on something in Texas...Company XYZ is planning on building a larger motorcycle...but I'm going t be working with the engineers and want to put together an American Made 250cc motorcycle. You guys already know how crazy I get about fluid dynamics, so you can only guess at how nuts this bike is going to be in that department. I'm also very big on Titanium, aluminum, carbon-fiber, Kevlar, even fiberglass, and some really awesome heat resistant, very hard Resin type plastics taht are so light they will float in water...We have some great companies that will be making parts for our big bikes...I'm just a stones throw from tossing in some serious ideas for a serious racing 4 stroke. I shouldn't say any more...just that I hope to sway the CEO into letting the engineers work on some ideas for this bike. It's been a dream of mine for many years, and perhaps this door opening will allow me to share with some experts...and once again we could have a serious machine for racing that is all American.
 

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I can relate to your sentiments and frustration. I also agree with the "Bigger is Better" insanity that is today's popular "American Way." Unfortunately I don't see Any large corporation considering to change the models of products they sell because a small portion of their consumers wish it. Although it would make sense with gas prices being as they are; more manufacturers offering smaller displacement motorcycles and more fuel efficient vehicles for sale. But I don't really see much of that happening. I think that most people who choose a more fuel efficient vehicle buy a small compact car. It makes more logical sense, and it's safer. I think that's about all I can say on this subject.
 

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stop messing about wiv zzr250's, yeah, theyre betta than your gpz250r, but theyre still only 8v. Get intouch wiv a import company and get hold off a zxr250 from either japan or australia.

I posted the details on here ages ago, if you want them again, just say.

The big manufacturers in the uk stopped parralel imports into the uk a couple of years back and since then, we get overpriced crap, thats too big and far too fast to have any serious fun on the road wiv.

yes these are 250cc!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.bikersoracle.com/zxr/forum/showthread.php?t=26
 

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A ZXR250 is a hot bike....I am looking at importing a bike or finding one that I like that is setup nice.

Were talking about 80HP to the rear tire on a 300 pound bike. MotoGP speeds! Could you imagine a persons face as you smoked them in the hills around the corners and they couldn't catch up with you with a "little" bike. If you look hard enough you can find some of the Honda NSR250s that are street legal and very fast. I just saw a Rothmans Replica that was awesome!

Aprillia got hosed when Suzuki said they were gonna stop giving them two stroke engines for the RS250 - What a great bike with lots of heritage.

I think what Kawi should do is introduce Kawi Performance Parts so you can hop up the Ninja 250. I think there would be a market for that. Carbon Fiber parts, 17" rim conversion kits, Big Bore kits etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
My link didn't work, but I'll do some searching...

I'll do some more searching. It is just that the ZZR-250 already has the aluminum frame, 17" wheels, na da better fairing. I suppose that Replacing the motor with some "other parts" could help but having one gone through and completely ballanced throughout, and all would be "different. Still we can buy new replacement motors for the 2004 KX250 or KX500 that are 2 stroke, or even a KX250F that is a 4 stroke or a KLR650 or KLR250 4 stroke motors. Then again ther is a KLX300R that is Liquid cooled DOHC 4-valve 292cc 4 stroke single 34mmsemi-flat slide carb...
Still, having a bike converted may be the way to go, especially here in the USA. Seems the Frame Serial Number is all that they care about...that goes for the Department of Motor Vehicles anyway (at least in Kansas). Installing a racing fairing even adding PIAA aftermarket lights, LED brake/tail lights and even some semi-flush LED turn signals...
I'm just upset with what we have for small bikes here. A 250cc (248) 4 stroke can be massaged, for racing, but I'm not sure about 17" wheels fitting on our ex250. Perhaps I should request the Specs for the wheels....
 

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To be totally honest, I spend all day looking at a computer screen and even with corrective lenses, I can't spend much more time reading your long R&R's. Thats not to say that I don't from time to time dedicate myself to fully read a line of thought, I would rather not spend any more time as necessary on the computer anymore.

To say that I dont' care is wrong, I do, but I need to allocate time to other activites and give my eyes a break. When winter fully sets in and I'm encased in this house 24 hours a day, with the exception of maybe running to the end of the driveway to get the mail, maybe one of the things that will help keep me sane will be your R&R's but for now, I have to do other things to get away from this computer desk, monitor and get some fresh air.
 

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Re: My link didn't work, but I'll do some searching...

ZX-2R said:
I'll do some more searching. It is just that the ZZR-250 already has the aluminum frame, 17" wheels, na da better fairing. I suppose that Replacing the motor with some "other parts" could help but having one gone through and completely ballanced throughout, and all would be "different. Still we can buy new replacement motors for the 2004 KX250 or KX500 that are 2 stroke, or even a KX250F that is a 4 stroke or a KLR650 or KLR250 4 stroke motors. Then again ther is a KLX300R that is Liquid cooled DOHC 4-valve 292cc 4 stroke single 34mmsemi-flat slide carb...
Still, having a bike converted may be the way to go, especially here in the USA. Seems the Frame Serial Number is all that they care about...that goes for the Department of Motor Vehicles anyway (at least in Kansas). Installing a racing fairing even adding PIAA aftermarket lights, LED brake/tail lights and even some semi-flush LED turn signals...
I'm just upset with what we have for small bikes here. A 250cc (248) 4 stroke can be massaged, for racing, but I'm not sure about 17" wheels fitting on our ex250. Perhaps I should request the Specs for the wheels....
I think that anything is possible in fabricating stuff for the bike, but how much will it cost vs looking at other readily available bikes that can be hopped up with special parts that are ready to go.

Ninja 250 with alum frame, 17" Carbon or magnesium rims, ram air, overbore kit 300cc etc etc.

Actually a great two stroke that I am looking at is the yamaha rz350.
 

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hey..ive got a zx2r it is a far better bike that the zzr 250..it has an inline 4cy,compared to the twin of the zzr,we have heaps of them here in australia(because we are restricted to 250s when first licsensed,huge market for 250s)i agree with you on what u call a ninja in the u.s..they are a pretty pathetic bike,look at importing a zx2r they are fantastic as they come!no need for mods and they are a great looking bike
 

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We have it good!

Compared to all the other 250 "Learner Bikes" (Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki) the little Ninja 250R is head and shoulders above them in technology and features and has an MSRP of $2999 (less than any of them). The specs on ZZR250 (not available in the USofA) ARE VERY impressive but the price for all that aluminum alloy and bigger wheels is about $8900 in Australia ($6625US) and in Canada they want $6299 ($5500US). The EX250 is less than many 50-cc scooters, for crying out loud! I don't EVEN want to know how much the 4cyl ZXR is. We have got one heck of a deal here for a great little bike. Stop whining!! If anyone really feels the need to spend about double for a 250cc motorcycle, just head north over the border and pick one up for yourself.
 

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All praise the Mighty Mite 250 Ninja! :D


Oh, and Matt33, this is for you... ;-)

 

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DKspokane said:
Compared to all the other 250 "Learner Bikes" (Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki) the little Ninja 250R is head and shoulders above them in technology and features and has an MSRP of $2999 (less than any of them). The specs on ZZR250 (not available in the USofA) ARE VERY impressive but the price for all that aluminum alloy and bigger wheels is about $8900 in Australia ($6625US) and in Canada they want $6299 ($5500US). The EX250 is less than many 50-cc scooters, for crying out loud! I don't EVEN want to know how much the 4cyl ZXR is. We have got one heck of a deal here for a great little bike. Stop whining!! If anyone really feels the need to spend about double for a 250cc motorcycle, just head north over the border and pick one up for yourself.


I hear that I am from Australia and have the ZZR 250cc... to be honest the only thing I really like about my bike is I give it hell and it just keeps turning on. Mind you its making a ticking noise now but ehh.

If you want your 250cc so badly come to Australia all learners have to go through 1 year of 250cc limited after they pass the bike licence, well in South Australia anyway and the little bikes hold their price because of this fact.
 

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matt33 said:
we have heaps of them here in australia(because we are restricted to 250s when first licsensed,huge market for 250s
this is why we will never get the good smaller bikes. I doubt they will ever pass a graduated licensing law.

if you were to import one you would have problems geting it registered then you would have to have contacts outside the country for parts, your local dealer could not get parts for the thing even if you had the part number.
 
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