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Discussion Starter #1
Is the KTM 65 that much better than my KX65?
Am I dong something wrong with my kids KX?
The KTM seems to pull a lot harder and longer than the KX.
What's the best set up as far as sprockets, jetting and timing for KX65?
What can I do to get my KX to compete, and be AMA stock legal?

Thanks.
 

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KB,

Please dont buy into the whole deal about KTM's being so much better. First you asked about what to do to keep the bike AMA Stock class legal. Are you going to race any Nationals? I ask because it is only the promoters of some of the nationals that have a stock class for 65cc. There is NO AMA stock class for any MX, SX, or AX in ANY class other than 50cc. You can legally mod a 65 to your wallets desire as long as you use the stock engine cases and it still remains 65cc. Other than that it is fair game!!! Now lets talk about the KX in general. The motor is not as strong on the bottom end as a KTM but will easily match on mid and is better on topend, that is in out of the box configuration. The KTM has a better rear shock only because it has compression damping. The forks in my opinion are btter on the KX simply because you can at least adjust the rebound. The KTM forks have zero adjustability without atleast changing oil and level. The KX is a great bike, last national we ran, my son took 5th in the mod class on a 05 KX that had nothing but a pipe and reeds. Rest of the motor was bone stock and even had about 30 hrs on the top end. This was against a field of heavily modded KTM's. In the stock class he was walking away with the holeshot on his clapped out 03 KX, that was totally stock pipe, silencer and all, but hit a huge hole at the end of the straight and almost crashed, but still managed to get 4th. Point is, they WILL run with a KTM all day long, for 1200.00 less. I can get a new KX and get the suspension done and tweek the motor for the price of a new stock KTM. Also the KTM is more fragile,harder to get parts for and those parts cost way more. And the so called easier to pull clutch is a myth. Just ask all the KTM kids who try my kids bike. They always comment on how much easier it is to pull in the clutch on my kids KX. ARC levers is why. They will adjust so close to the bars that the clutch wont disenguage if you adjust all the way in. (thats about 3/4 inch from bars!) Ok enough rambling, you get my point. We run 14/47 on gearing. FMF Factory Fatty pipes, V-Force III reeds. Stock timing, dead nuts on jetting, and 28:1 mixture with Maxima K2 oil. In the tranny I run Mobil 1 full syn 5W-30 with 2TwoCool.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Where are you racing at?

Top twelve spots Loretta Lynn's 11 were KTM, Top 6 KTM. (7-9)
Top Ten (10-11) 7 were KTM first three were KTM.

I haven't seen a KX keep up with a KTM yet. My son's mod 65 was about as mod as you can get and it was not close. He finished ok, but you could tell the difference on the straights.

We also tried the KX85 this last year. What a slow bike. His mod KX65 was faster. We got a year old KTM85 that was stock. What a difference. The two bikes don't even compare.

If a bike is $1,000 cheaper, but you need to put $1,200 into it is it really cheaper?
 

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Last national we ran was Branson in Oct. As far as you not seeing a Kx run with a KTM? I guess you need to get around more. Adam C. rides Kawi. McSwain rides Suzuki. Zach Bell rides Kawi. All top level riders. I see it every week. Like this weekend when my kid took first overall and got both holeshots. KX85 slower than a mod 65? Tuner must be cluless. As far as 85cc in general the KX is ( 06' ) a great bike. Our friends son just got picked up by Cernics and was given the opprotunity to ride all the 85's then choose. He was on Honda, and after riding them all, he choose Kawi. He is a top level national rider so im sure his opinion is sound. Other friend just bought 2 KTM 85's. ( 06' ) Both are nothing but problems and is having tons of clutch issues. And now, wallet issues. After i put 1200.00 into my KX it is far superior to your bone stock KTM that cost the same. And is just as good after you spend the money to get the KTM suspension done, pipe ect. I still have a bike that is as good but cheaper to build and cheaper parts and easy to get parts. Oh Ya, And my son earned over a 1000.00 in contingency money this season. Im not sure, but I think those KTM kids got NOTHING!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Glad you are happy with KX. I used to always ride KX and so did my boys, but not anymore. We may switch back when they are on 125's, but not now.
My boys didn't even have to adjust to the KTM, they were faster immediatley.
With all of the Team green money and Suzuki contingency why were most of the 65cc riders at Loretta Lynn's riding KTM?
 

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Motopsycho, we just purchased an 06 KX85. My boy has been training on an 04 that had lighter springs and thats it. Everything else stock. What gearing, jetting, spring rate would you recommend for a 10yr old very aggressive 4'2 70lbs boy. We too tested them all out including the KTM cause we race SX65's. Hands down wanted the Kawi.. We even tested with riders his own size on the other brands. I love KTM's but becoming KX fan myself.

KBracing you are correct in regards to bike of choice in the 65 class. Sorry to chime in but thot I could also get some help here about the 85 setup from Motopsycho....

Bill
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Expert.
Never a problem. We are just the opposite. We ran KX and RM 65 for 6 years. Between my two boys I think they have 5 65cc local championships, but had to work hard to get their KX's to compete with the KTM's.
My oldest than went to a KX85. Ran great, but was never fast. Matter of fact was slower than his mod 65. His bike threw a clip in piston pin, and trashed the cylinder. I was able to get a 04 KTM that was a back-up for national kid. My son went from back of the pack to first within two races. I fixd the 85 and sold without ever riding it again.
 

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KB,
U seem to have answered ur own question.
In stock form the KTM 65 is the better bike, but cost more to buy and maintain. STILL, a talented rider will win on either.
85s ?? The KTM aint all its made up to be. Especially compared to the 06 crop of bikes. Our 06 Kawi is a whole diferent bike compared to e the 05,04 ,03's we have owned. At least in the engine power dept. I feel it does everything as well as the KTM ,every bike has its ups and downs,The Kawi cost about a grand less and has lower parts and maintainence cost.
Bottom line is all the bikes are competative , a talented rider will win on any. My son tested a KTM, he hated the clutch, felt the suspension was way to stiff
 

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I will have to say out of the box the 06 KX85 is extremely fast and we tested an 06 SX85 a few days b4 buying the KX85 Saturday. Brandon loves it the way it is but I know no bike is setup properly out of the box. At least thats my take...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Always been a KX guy, but there are a lot of things that are much better on the stock KTM 85.

I like the non linkage rear. Been able to adjust very quick and easy.
Hydraulic clutch.
Rear swing arm. Does not have to be changed to convert to super mini.
Heavier spokes.
428 chain instead of 420.
Translucent gas tank.
Large foot pegs.
Remove air filter without tools or removing the seat.
Very easy to convert to 105.
 

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Prime example of why there are so many diferent choices. Everybody has diferent taste.
I personally prefer the linkage rear- havent really ever had adjustment issues
the boys hated the feel of the hyd clutch, i am sure as with anything that would take getting used to on their part
never had any probs with the 420 chains, we get alot of help with parts, so we also renew often
The other stuff is pretty much personal preference stuff . I am by no means downing the KTM ,itwas on our short list just after tetsing both , i couldnt find any reason it was worth a 1000 bux more than the Kawi , and i couldnt find a KTM dealer willing to deal .
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Go to KTM talk and ask for quotes on new bikes. I had a KTM50 shipped to my house for almost a $1,000 less than what any other local dealer would sell it to me for.
And talk about support. Ask a question and within minutes have 5 replies.
 

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I go to KTM talk often, I still have a son racing 50s, we have a pro senior.
I wont even go into what I feel about those POS's.
Everybody has different opinions, and experiences.
We had a 04 SX85 , replaced it with a KX85. Got tired of getting raped by the local dealer or waiting 2-3 days for internet purchases. PLus really thought the bike didnt live up to all the hype . The kids liked the bike, but I feel that had as much to do with the hype of having a SX85 as to actual performance.
Dont get me wrong, SX85, will get the job done! My experience was that after a pipe / reeds (which btw the KTM came oem with) The KX would get the job done as well, at a hellova cheaper maintainence cost.
We dont race nationals , one boy probably could , other 3 couldnt. Wouldnt be fair to spend all the racing/vacation/family money on one. So we enjoy the local thing , get rewarded a few times a year with some KAWIBUX and the KX's have been fast/reliable and reasonable maintainence cost for us. Plus the Local Kawi dealer looks out for us, well.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
SX455 sounds great. We too, could do national type races, but kids are young, and I do not know if it is worth the time and money. There are other things in life right now. Like you said the kids and our wallet have to be happy. I was lucky, last year I bought two 2004 KTM's one with new motor and very little hours and other with less hours, and ran the one from July to Oct and put no money into the bike, and my son won two local championships and finsihed third at Great Lakes Championship on that bike.

BTW I know where you are coming from on the 50's. We started out on Cobras, and two years ago switched my youngest to KTM. Cobra cost and maint was bad enough, but KTM really sucked compared to Cobra. What's worse, try to keep the KTM legal and win races. The KTM 50 was the biggest mistake.!! My son won his local cahmpionship, but if he had his Cobra it would not have been close.
 

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I agree, we may very well have been ridn orange in 06 if not such a gap in the prices.
I looked into Cobra, but that KTM is all and more than he can handle now, I think he may have to wear diapers again if I put him on a Cobra!! LOL
I am lookin forward to the 65s , get away from the 50s!
Now::::::::::::::::: Lets talk 4strokes!! 14 year old just started ridn those this year :shock: Starting another phase of the mx cycle!!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I'm ready to go 4-stroke, but kids are only 10 and 11. To bad there isn't a 4-storke for 85cc class.
 

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Expert,
Sorry but got no answers for the 85. We dont have one yet. Waiting for the 07's. My son has rode all but the KTM, and liked Honda best. But all were 05's. We will go Honda or Kawi for 07 because that is what the dealer sells that supports us. They also sell KTM, but they are not an option. There not worth the money, plus the parts and availability issue. Mini Rider rated the KTM 4th out of 5 tested. And that whole "No contigency" thing from KTM is pathetic.
 
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