[TommyBorsh]

Hi all,

I pulled a KV-75 out of my father in laws garage and started playing around with it. Had some missing pieces but I have sourced most of them. My big problem right now is the kickstarter. With everything together if I kick as hard as I can on the kickstart it barely moves. I have removed the covers on both sides and I can spin the magneto or the clutch basket and the piston turns, I can put a wrench on the oil drive nut and the piston turns. If I put the cover on and try and push the kickstart it does nothing, bolted down or not. I have pulled the cylinder and removed the piston and I get the same result. Clutch basket or magneto turns the crank, wrench on the oil drive nut turns the crank, put the cover on and push the kick start I get a ton of resistance. If I spin the magneto while pushing the kickstart, the kickstart will move but it is never able to turn the crank by itself. Yes the kickstart works and ratchets when mounted in the cover but not mounted to the engine. I have replaced the bearing in the clutch hub and checked that it spins only in the correct direction.

I have not split the case as it seems daunting, but I am running out of ideas. I have refrained from splitting the case since I can shift it through the gears and everything seems fine (drive gear spins when in gear), also since the crank spins well and when I removed the head and piston there was no side to side play in the connecting rod and everything seems to function as normal when turned by the clutch, magneto or by the oil drive nut with a wrench. I have even gotten it to spark by turning it with the magneto.

I have a video, I know you can't see the piston moving, but it is.

Video:

I have a few questions:

Any thoughts as to the cause of this?
should I be able to turn the large input shaft gear by hand?
When spinning the clutch basket or magneto, should the large input shaft gear always turn as well or just when the hub happens to catch it?

Thank you for reading and any assistance you provide.

Tom

 

[WFO-KZ]

I have a question for you. Why is that your first attempt to turn it over with a wrench failed and then later was successful? What did you do to free it up?

 

[TommyBorsh]

Ahh good question. Sorry for the quality of the video, i grabbed the clutch basket and scooched it a turn. That freed it up. Since that video was taken I have pulled the head and sprayed the crank with a healthy dose of wd-40 and 30wt oil and it doesn't seem to stick like that anymore when turning with the wrench. You'd think that would help the Kickstarter but no such luck. No change. I can get the wrench to spin it no problem then put the cover on and get nothing from the Kickstarter.

 

[WFO-KZ]

Do you have a service manual for it? Are you certain the kickstarter mechanism is correctly assembled?
Do you know what year the bike is?

 

[Kawasakian]

I wouldn't go any further without the Service Manual. The side cover may be pinching something. A bearing may not have a thrust washer and that is pinching the bearing. It may have been taken apart before and someone left something out.

 

[TommyBorsh]

Do you have a service manual for it? Are you certain the kickstarter mechanism is correctly assembled?
Do you know what year the bike is?

Hi,

It is a 72 or 73 based on engine codes (MTE26440) and the bike is orange, so technically it is an MT1A. I do have a service manual and followed it for tearing down the kickstarter mechanism. The kickstarter turns easily in the correct direction when mounted in the cover and ratchets back if I hold the gear in place.

I will look again at the diagrams and compare them to what I currently have in place, I do not think anything has been left out, but it always pays to double check.

 

[WFO-KZ]

It is also possible that a spacer has been added or put in the wrong place behind the large gear causing both gears to protrude too much. You can check for assembled clearance by taking a bit of clay or duct seal and rolling it into a small ball and sticking the ball onto the face of one gear and then assemble the side cover. Then remove the side cover and inspect the ball. If it has been mashed paper thin, you might have a clearance problem.

But I will say this. It bothers me that in the video you were unable to turn the gear with a wrench. Yes it freed up, but I find it a bit hard to believe that just a shot of WD40 to the crankshaft, was enough to free it up. I would really want to know why it froze in the first place. If it was rust on the crank that was so bad that a wrench would not budge it, then that crank will not last and you might was well split the cases now. But I don't think it was rust because you were freely spinning the crank by hand. It only seized after you put a wrench on it. Solve that mystery and you will likely solve your starter problem.

 

[TommyBorsh]

It is also possible that a spacer has been added or put in the wrong place behind the large gear causing both gears to protrude too much. You can check for assembled clearance by taking a bit of clay or duct seal and rolling it into a small ball and sticking the ball onto the face of one gear and then assemble the side cover. Then remove the side cover and inspect the ball. If it has been mashed paper thin, you might have a clearance problem.

But I will say this. It bothers me that in the video you were unable to turn the gear with a wrench. Yes it freed up, but I find it a bit hard to believe that just a shot of WD40 to the crankshaft, was enough to free it up. I would really want to know why it froze in the first place. If it was rust on the crank that was so bad that a wrench would not budge it, then that crank will not last and you might was well split the cases now. But I don't think it was rust because you were freely spinning the crank by hand. It only seized after you put a wrench on it. Solve that mystery and you will likely solve your starter problem.

I totally agree that it should not be jamming at any point along the process. I am intrigued by the ball of clay method, and will give it a try. I do not think the WD-40 really made a big difference either. I agree that if I can solve the wrench lock at the oil nut, the kickstarter should be free.

Thanks for the help, I will keep you posted.

Tom

 

[TommyBorsh]

Tried the ball of clay today and it barely got squished. I did not bolt the cover down, but if it binds unbolted I think it's clear we don't have a clearance issue. To test that I tried offsetting the cover a 1/4 inch and it still binds. I put the cylinder head back on to see if that caused the wrench lock issue. So far it turns very well, if not slightly more difficult compared to the clutch basket but I think that's to be expected as it is one step down the line. I double checked the clutch and hub bearing and the thrust washer etc are all where they belong.

I will check the big gear soon.

Should I be able to get the crank to turn if I grab the big gear and turn it, I feel like I should be able to but perhaps I can't get a good enough grasp or something.

Thanks for all the support,

Tom

 

[WFO-KZ]

Can you detect any side to side play in the big gear?

I also noticed that Kawi made changes in the design of the kickstarter in the years 1973-75.
So far I see the main kickstart shaft part number changed from 13066-1022 to 13068-007. Other parts might be different also, but I did not check each part, but maybe you could.

Is it possible someone replaced it with the wrong shaft and that is the issue?

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[TommyBorsh]

No. The big gear is pretty stationary and I don't see any play in it.

My father in law bought it brand new from the dealership, rode it hard (you may not see it in the video, but the magneto side of the case is actually busted off on the back half where it mounts to the frame) and then put it in his father's garage, where it sat for 30 years, until I pulled it out of the dumpster he threw it into. He doesn't remember trying too hard to fix it, so I doubt he swapped parts from another year onto this bike. It is worth looking into though.

Again thanks for all the help,

Tom

 

[Kawasakian]

Found a video of a guy reassembling the kickstarter. This is part 2 of the video. It seems pretty straightforward.

 

[WFO-KZ]

It does seem straightforward but he does not actually take apart the kickstart mechanism, or at least he does not show it.
The part is a little more involved. Was looking through the manual and found this that may be relevant:

 

[TommyBorsh]

Hello,

I have watched Kevin's videos many times and I even called him once about another issue. I have followed that step quoted in the service manual and I am hung up on the wording there "if the nut is not tight the kickstarter will not work". The needle bearing was damaged and I replaced it with a new one. I have assured that it only turns counterclockwise, I have pulled it many times to check that I am right. As I said I am hung up the sentence above, since it speaks about the kickstarter not working correctly. However I have tried the nut at 33lbs, at 45lbs and nearly everything in between, and I still get the same results. My torque wrench hasn't been calibrated in years but I doubt it is 12lbs out of alignment. I will have to double check this, but I believe if I loosen the nut (on the clutch basket) to finger tight or remove it completely the kickstarter does "work" obviously nothing happens but it does rotate the big gear.

Thank you,

Tom

 

[WFO-KZ]

Don't know if you noticed but Kevin has just joined kawasakimotorcycle.org as a new member. Perhaps he will see this and provide his views.

It has been decades since I last worked on a KV-75. I have split the cases on many of them to replace transmission parts because kids refused to back off on the throttle when shifting gears. Eventually they would bend the shifting forks and beat the heck out of the gears themselves. When it stopped shifting, they would bring it to the shop where I worked. They were never designed for that kind of abuse.

Good to know that you have the needle bearing correctly installed. Do you know what I would try at this stage? I would flip it around the other way incase the manual is wrong. It happens.

 

[TommyBorsh]

I wanted to update everyone (mostly I hate threads that just end with no results). I split the case, the transmission is in great shape, but both crank bearings were shot. I only saw it after pulling the magneto completely and saw the bad seal. I figured since the crank turned the bearings were fine. But they were not, one was frozen and the other was missing the bearing separators. I am in the process of pressing it back together but am confident this should solve it. Thanks for everything.

 

[WFO-KZ]

Thanks for posting your results Tommy. You are right that many don't and it leaves you hanging wondering what the final outcome was. Best of luck with your rebuild.