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Make Mine Pure BHP
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Discussion Starter #1
Just installed a set of HEL braided SS lines on my '94 ZX-7. Went to the 2 line format for the front, using a SS double banjo bolt with 3 copper washers, fittings are SS, powder coated. All materials were purchased from HEL.

I am getting the smallest, minuet leak between the master cylinder and the washer installed closest to it, BUT only when I squeeze & hold the brake lever. It doesn't drip, just an indication of fresh fluid when I run my finger over it after squeezing the lever. I pre-fitted everything so there wasn't any binding on the fittings when performing the final install.

I've replaced the washer (all of them actually) with no results. I can't see any imperfections on the surface of the M/C where it mates w/ the washers. No visible cracks in either the M/C housing or the banjo bolt.

I've called HEL and while they have had the single line banjo bolts suffer manufacturing defects (like 1 in a bazillion though) they claim never from their double bolts (I say if one then why not the other...). However they are being cooperative and are great to work with, and sending me out another double banjo.

Factory torque is 18 ft. lbs. I've bumped up the torque value to 20 as I thought it might take a little bit more due to the 3 washers. HEL calls for their bolts to be in the 14-24 ft. lbs. range

Since bleeding brakes, working w/ hydraulic fluid, etc. tops my list of fun things to do, I'm out of ideas.

Anyone come across this before?
Tighten the banjo up another couple of pounds?
Possibility of a cracked master cylinder housing? - or any other parts related to the master cylinder?
Loosen up the banjo bolt so it leaks a little more, follow that with a stream of gasoline, strike up a match & stand back & watch the show?

:cool:
 

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was going to suggest new washers, too late though. ;)

at least the "you can use RTV" crowd hasn't posted yet.

is there any imperfections at the master cylinder?
 

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Make Mine Pure BHP
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Discussion Starter #3
was going to suggest new washers, too late though. ;)

is there any imperfections at the master cylinder?
Not that I can see. I haven't dropped it or anything. I did remove the stock unit as a whole to test fit, and then took it apart on the bench. I may have done something when tearing apart the system, but if so I can't see it. Stranger things have happened.

at least the "you can use RTV" crowd hasn't posted yet.
Waiting on the Seafoam faithful...:biggrin:

Thanks Darrell.

:cool:
 

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BACK ON TWO WHEELS
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Have you checked the banjo and its surface, was it warped or damaged during construction or shipping?
 

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Make Mine Pure BHP
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Discussion Starter #5
Have you checked the banjo and its surface, was it warped or damaged during construction or shipping?
When I pulled the system apart I checked the hose fittings and banjo bolt. HEL is sending me a new bolt, just to eliminate that as a problem, and if the problem persists, I'll have to address the possibility of a faulty fitting but they certainly appear to be OK.

:cool:
 

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Vintage bike addict
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Did you check with a magnifying glass the surface of the master cylinder? Maybe black it with a magic marker and wipe it with a cloth with brake cleaner. If there are any black lines they are cracks. If that is the case you either have to fill the cracks some how or machine the surface down below the cracks. My guess would be to replace the master cylinder.
 

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Patriot Guardian
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Just a shot in the dark... but maybe reinstall the original lines and see if it still leaks. If it is, then it's probably the MC, if not, then it has something to do with the new hoses.
 

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BACK ON TWO WHEELS
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Just a shot in the dark... but maybe reinstall the original lines and see if it still leaks. If it is, then it's probably the MC, if not, then it has something to do with the new hoses.
+1
 

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Make Mine Pure BHP
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Discussion Starter #10
Just a shot in the dark... but maybe reinstall the original lines and see if it still leaks. If it is, then it's probably the MC, if not, then it has something to do with the new hoses.
Yea Rich - these were my next thoughts exactly (great minds I guess...:biggrin:), a way to eliminate the M/C or the new lines. I was just hoping to be able to put it back together, bleed, & yada for a final time.

More time than $$ though...:redface:

:cool:
 

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BACK ON TWO WHEELS
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Dont use any RTV your asking for trouble...
 

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Vintage bike addict
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You could try the brass washers. Rearrange them to different positions or replace them with new and retighten. Might cure the problem.
 

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Make Mine Pure BHP
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Discussion Starter #16
You could try the brass washers. Rearrange them to different positions or replace them with new and retighten. Might cure the problem.
Brass washers? - haven't heard of them for banjo fittings. To the best of my knowledge:

Alum Banjo Fittings - use alum washers
Steel, SS, or Titanium Fittings - use copper washers

HEL recommends using their copper washers with their lines since they have them manufactured to their own specs, different size than over the counter washers, etc.

:cool:
 

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Patriot Guardian
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It's a joke between mechanics. People use it for everything, when they shouldn't use it for ANYTHING!
Explain that to Toyota.... some of their finest engines are gasket-free except for the head gasket.

Used SPARINGLY and in the proper application, it's got a lot of good uses.

Slopping it on the outside of a leaking assembly only makes for a leaking assembly with an RTV mess on it.
 

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Doesn't belong near brake fluid, gas, or engine oil, on my vehicles anyway.
If Toyota can engineer something that uses RTV, more power to them. I like their products, they last a long time.
 

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Doesn't belong near brake fluid, gas, or engine oil, on my vehicles anyway.
If Toyota can engineer something that uses RTV, more power to them. I like their products, they last a long time.
Agree on the brake fluid and to a degree on gas. Disagree on engine oil.

Toyota is able to do it because they can machine two mating parts that result in an RTV "gasket" that is WAY thinner than it would need to be to be transparent... we're talking thinner than tissue paper. I'm not convinced that their parts wouldn't seal without the RTV :biggrin:
 
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