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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there, I'm a new member. I'm a female...still waiting on going to her second decade of life, figured that it would go by faster on a motorcycle. I own a red '95 Ninja ZX-6 (uptight family is worried). I started riding about 5 months ago. I'm still kind of a beginner; my right turns aren't as good as my lefts, and that weight takes a while to get used to.

I stumbled upon this site 20 minutes ago when I was trying to look for some info on my bike online.

Would anyone be able to tell me what the dry weight of a '95 Ninja ZX-6 is? My vehicle registration says 460 lbs... which would make it heavier than the new Ninja ZX-12R. It really doesn't feel that heavy, though. It's a pain in the butt to pick up when dropped. Anyone know where I can find the answer?

Thanks
 

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According to this spec page on the ZX-6, the dry weight is 430. Here's the details: http://www.gatewaycycles.com/kawasaki/motorcycle/ninja/ninjaspecs3.htm

If you haven't taken the Motorcycle Safety Class yet, I highly recommend it. It's well worth the cost, will improve your riding technique, and reduces your insurance cost by 15%.

There are also some really great books out there to help improve technique, safety, and fun. They explain the concepts behind traction, braking, acceleration, and counter steering which is what will help you improve those right turns. If you are intersted, please reply and I'll be glad to post a list of suggested titles.

Happy, safe riding! :)
 

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MSF will help you out a lot, it'll help you reduce the amount of learning curve. If you don't drop it then you won't have to pick it back up :wink:
 

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RagDoll_Kunoichi said:
Would anyone be able to tell me what the dry weight of a '95 Ninja ZX-6 is? My vehicle registration says 460 lbs... which would make it heavier than the new Ninja ZX-12R. It really doesn't feel that heavy, though. It's a pain in the butt to pick up when dropped. Anyone know where I can find the answer?

Thanks
Aloha from the mainland,

Have family in Hilo working the sugar cane business.

Get yourself checked inthe MSF course at the community college. You'll learn a bunch and meet some new riders as well to keep in touch with. There is also an all girls riders club on the island if you haven't met up with them yet.

Hawaii Motorcycle Safety Education Program
808-455-0307
University of Hawaii Community College

Leeward Community College
Phone 455-0307 or from Neighbor Islands 1-800-303-1611

Can't blame them to much yet if you already dropped the bike. Kinda heavy to pick huhh.. Give your family a reason to feel better about you riding by taking the class and learning and then share with them. They still may not like you riding, but they will feel better that you are taking initiative to learn properly!

Mahalo
 

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Here is some good info on your turning if you have a harder time going one way than the other. MSF will teach you the basics but you may still have some kinks to work out. Looking for info online is a great idea. If you have any other questions let us know. I have some other good links for questions.


The Bad Side - Lefts or Rights?

There are technical points concerning a rider's fear of making either right or left hand turns. Many riders have this fear and it's frustrating. Scores of riders have complained to me about this with a sheepish sort of approach and "admitted" they were perplexed by it. Rightfully so, roughly 50% of their turns were being hampered by an unknown, un-categorized, seemingly unapproachable fear having no apparent source and no apparent reasoning behind it. Out of desperation for an answer riders have blamed their inability on being right or left handed, mysterious brain malfunctions and a host of other equally dead end "nonsense solutions"; nonsense because none of them answered their questions or addressed the hesitance, uncertainty and fear. Having a fear of right turns would be the worst if you lived in Kansas or Nebraska where practically the only turns worth the title are freeway on and off ramps. If you went "ramping" with your friends, "doing the cloverleaf", round and round, you'd be at the back of the pack . Anxiety on lefts would exclude you from the dirt track racing business for sure but mainly we are talking about day to day riding and any such apprehension as this (and there are others) spoils a rider's confidence, making him somewhat gun shy. There are actually three reasons why you could have this unidirectional phobia (fear) and all three contain an inordinate amount of some emotional response that runs from suspicion and distrust to mild panic and a dose of plain old anxiety dropped into the middle for good measure. By the way, if you consider yourself in this category of rider, count your blessings, many riders have bidirectional phobia and it's only by their force of will and love of freedom that they persist in their riding at all!

First Reason
Reason number one for this fear is that you crashed on the right or left at sometime and the relatively indelible mental scar is still on the mend but remains a more or less hidden and nagging source of irritation. The part of the mind that is concerned with survival does not easily forget and the proof is that our species still exists.

There have no doubt been other more pressing problems along the way that have tried and tested Man in his effort to put order into his environment. The fact that the incident of a crash drops down to an obscure sub-level of awareness is not a help in this, or perhaps any other case, as it can affect our riding from there and can add an unpredictable element to our riding.

You may gain some control over this with practice but the oddest part of it is that if one hasn't ridden for a while this apprehension of turning right or left can return in force... provided it springs from this particular source. In the technology of the mind and according to the discipline of Dianetics, these incidents are stored in what is called the Reactive Mind, for the obvious reason that one finds himself reacting to, rather than being coactive with, some circumstance. In this case, right or left turns.

Second Reason
In the discipline of riding technology we have the act and activity of counter-steering to contend with. Here a rider may have become confused, in a panic of some sort, and gone back to another variety of "survival response" that pressed him into turning the bike's bars in the direction he wanted to go rather than doing the correct (and backwards from other vehicle's steering) action of counter-steering. That instant of confusion has stopped many riders cold in their tracks, never to twist their wrist again and pleasure themselves with motorcycle riding.

Turn left to go right push the right bar to go right, its the thing that eludes us in that panic situation (statistically) more commonly than anything save only the overuse and locking of the rear brake.

When you dissect this confusion regarding the counter-steering process you see that it is possibly more devastating than the rear end lock up, even though both have the same result, the bike goes straight, and often straight into that which we were trying to avoid. Basics prevail--You can only do two things on a motorcycle, change its speed and change its direction. Confusion on counter-steering locks up the individual's senses tighter than a transmission run without oil and reduces those two necessary control factors down to one...A bad deal in anyone's book.

Third Reason
The third possible reason for being irrational about rights and lefts is the one that has solved it more often than not--practice. Applying the drill sergeant's viewpoint of repeatedly training the rider to practice and eventually master the maneuver is a very practical solution. I suppose this one falls under the heading of the discipline of rider dynamics. And a casual inspection of riders will show you the following: Ninety-five percent of all riders push the bike down and away from their body to initiate a turn or steering action, especially when attempting to do it rapidly. Rapidly meaning something on the order of how fast you would have to turn your bike if someone stopped quickly in front of you and you wanted to simply ride around them; or avoid a pothole or a rock or any obstacle.

For example, a muffler falls off the car in front on the freeway at 60 m.p.h., that's eighty-eight feet per second of headway you are making down the road. Despite the fact you've left a generous forty feet between you and the car, that translates into one half second to get the bike's direction diverted, including your reaction time to begin the steering process. We're talking about a couple of tenths of a second here--right now.

This procedure riders have of pushing the bike down and away from themselves to steer it seems like an automatic response and is most probably an attempt to keep oneself in the normally correct relationship to the planet and its gravity, namely, vertically oriented or perpendicular to the ground. This is a good idea for walking, sitting and standing--but not for riding. When you stay "on top" of the bike, pushing it under and away, you actually commit a number of riding dynamics sins. The first of which is the bad passenger syndrome."

Bad Passenger
Bad passengers lean the wrong way on the bike. They position themselves in perfect discord--counter to your intended lean, steering and cornering sensibilities. So do you when you push the bike away from yourself, or hold your body rigidly upright on the bike--very stately looking, very cool but ultimately it's an inefficient rider position. The most usual solution to a bad passenger's efforts to go against the bike's cornering lean angle is brow beating them and threaten "no more rides." But how do you fix this tendency in yourself?

A bad passenger makes you correct your steering and eventually become wary of their actions and the bike's response to them. This ultimately leads to becoming tense on the bike while in turns. Pushing the bike away from yourself or sitting rigidly upright while riding solo has the same effect.

Hung Off Upright
Hang off style riders don't think this applies to them but it does. Many riders are still pushing the bike under themselves while hung off. Look through some race photos especially on the club and national level and you will easily see that some are still trying to be bad passengers on their own bike and countering the benefits of the hung position by trying to remain upright through the corners.

A rider's hung-off style may have more to do with his ability to be comfortable with the lean of the bike, and go with it, than anything else. This is not to say there is only one way to sit on a bike, in any style of riding. But it does mean that each rider must find his own way of agreeing with his bike's dynamics and remain in good perspective to the road. And this doesn't mean that you always have to have your head and eyes parallel with the horizon as some riders claim. But it does mean that you may have to push yourself to get out of the "man is an upright beast" mode of thinking and ride with the bike, not against it. It may feel awkward at first but it's the only way to be "in-unit" with the bike. On a professional level most riders do this. John Kocinski is an example of someone in perfect harmony with his machine and Mick Doohan has modified his sit-up push-it-under style of riding over the past couple of years to one that is more in line with the bike.

Show and Tell
If you have a rider (or yourself) do a quick flick, side to side, steering maneuver in a parking lot you'll clearly observe them jerking and stuffing the bike underneath themselves in an effort to overwhelm it with good intentions and brute force rather than using correct, effective and efficient steering technique.

There are other steering quirks you may observe while having someone do this simple show-and-tell parking lot drills. For example, some riders have a sudden hitch that comes at the end of the steering when they have leaned it over as far as they dare. It's a kind of jerking motion initiated from their rigid upper body.

You may see an exaggerated movement at the hips; that's another variation of their attempt to keep the back erect. Also, look for no movement of the head or extreme movement of it to keep the head erect. A general tenseness of the whole body is common as is lots of side to side motion of the bike. So what's the right thing to do here?

Good Passenger
What does a good passenger do? NOTHING. They just sit there and enjoy the ride, practically limp on the saddle. The bike leans over and so does the passenger. Which scenario agrees with motorcycle design: weight on top that is moving or weight that is stable and tracking with it? Motorcycles respond best to a positive and sure hand that does the least amount of changing. You, as a rider, need to do the same thing, basically, NOTHING. Holding your body upright is not doing nothing it is doing something. It is an action you initiate, a tenseness you provide and it is in opposition to the bike's intended design--what it likes.

More Lean
There is another technical point here. The more you stay erect and try to push the bike down and away (motocross style riding) the more leaned over you must be to get through the turn. That's a fact. Crotch rocket jockeys hang off their bikes for show but the pros do it to lean their bikes over less. You can counter this adverse affect of having to lean more by simply going with the bike while you turn it, in concert with and congruous to its motion, not against it. There is even an outside chance you may find it feels better and improves your control over the bike and reduces the number of mini-actions needed to corner. There is also a good possibility that this will open the door to conquering your directional fear, whichever form it may take.

Diagnosis
Look for one or more of these indications on your "bad" side:

The body is stiff or tense while making turns on the side you don't like, at least more so than on the side you do like.
You don't allow your body to go with the bike's lean on side: You are fighting it and it is fighting you.
The effort to remain perfectly vertical is greater on your bad side.
You will find yourself being less aggressive with the turning process on your bad side.
You will find yourself being shortsighted, looking too close to the bike on that shy side.
You will find yourself making more steering corrections by trying to "dip" the bike into turns or pressing and releasing the bars several times in each turn.
You will notice a tendency to stiff arm the steering.
You will notice you are trying to steer the bike with your shoulders rather than you arms.
You might find more symptoms but one or more of the above will be present on your bad side.

Coaching
The very best and simplest way I've found to cure this tendency to push the bike under is to have someone watch you while you do a quick flick, back and forth, steering drill in a parking lot. You have your friend stand at one point and you ride directly away from him or her as though you were weaving cones and then turn around and ride directly back at them weaving as quickly as you feel comfortable and at a speed you like, usually second gear. In that way your coach is able to see you either going with the bike at each steering change or they will see you and the bike crisscrossing back and forth from each other.

As the coach, that's what you are looking for, the bike and the rider doing the same action, the rider's body is leaned over the same as the bike at each and every point from beginning of the steering action to the end. There is no trick to seeing this...it is obvious. For example, when they ride away from you, if you see the mirrors moving closer and further away from the rider's body, they are obviously not moving together. That's pushing the bike under rather than good steering. This is also the time to notice which side is the rider's bad side. The back and forth flicks will be hesitant on one side or the other.

Remedies
The entire purpose of this exercise is to have the rider get in better communication with his machine--going with it not against it--and not treating it as though it were a foreign object that he is wrestling to stay on top of or muscle it down like a rodeo rider. Often, it simply takes a reminder to loosen-up the upper body. Sometimes the rider needs to lean forward and imagine the tank and he are one and the same. On sportbikes, a full crouch over the tank can sometimes be the answer to link the rider with his bike, giving him a ready reference to it's physical attitude in relation to the road.

Making sure the rider has some bend in his elbows while leaning forward slightly seems to help. Having them use palm pressure to steer the bike seems to resolve the tendency to muscle the bike over from side to side. Dropping the elbows so the forearm is more level with the tank makes the steering easier and promotes their going with the bike and takes them away from the stiff armed approach to steering. Reminders to relax the shoulders and let the arms do the work of steering also helps.

End Result
You stop doing the drill when the rider has the feeling he is in better control of the bike, when he has the idea of how easy and how much less effort it takes to steer; or when he feels comfortable with both rights and lefts. There could be other contributing factors like overly worn tires or a bent frame that would bring a genuine and justified anxiety to a right or left turn but I believe the above three reasons cover everything else and if you are anything like the hundreds of riders I've had do the above drill, you could use a little work on this area even if you don't have a bad side. I hope it helps.

© Keith Code 1996-1997

http://www.cornering.com/us/keiths_corner/badside.shtml
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ken said:
If you haven't taken the Motorcycle Safety Class yet, I highly recommend it. It's well worth the cost, will improve your riding technique, and reduces your insurance cost by 15%.
I noticed a lot of you have recommended this. I'll be happy to let you guys know that the safety course here is where I first learned to ride about 7 months ago. So no worries, that's taken care of. :D It was extremely informative... and expensive, $200.

As for saving money on insurance, I'm not so sure it helped. Like I said in the other topic, I pay $170 a month for minimun coverage. I'd hate to imagine how much I'd pay if i didn't take the course... :?

Thanks for the great advice, applies, and warm welcomes!
 

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RagDoll_Kunoichi said:
Ken said:
If you haven't taken the Motorcycle Safety Class yet, I highly recommend it. It's well worth the cost, will improve your riding technique, and reduces your insurance cost by 15%.
I noticed a lot of you have recommended this. I'll be happy to let you guys know that the safety course here is where I first learned to ride about 7 months ago. So no worries, that's taken care of. :D It was extremely informative... and expensive, $200.

As for saving money on insurance, I'm not so sure it helped. Like I said in the other topic, I pay $170 a month for minimun coverage. I'd hate to imagine how much I'd pay if i didn't take the course... :?





Thanks for the great advice, applies, and warm welcomes!


170 a month..**** ..did you get quotes from other agents.if not..get online and get quotes from those brokers...im sure you can get a better deal
 

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Just a thought...

It would be worth double checking with your agent to make sure they have your certificate from the MSF class on file, and that you are indeed getting some sort of credit for it. With Progressive, the Beginner's MSF class shaves 15% off your premium for 3 years.
 

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TURNS

Have someone videotape you riding in circles around something like cans in a large parking lot. then change direction and ride in the other direction. when you have done thes then make the circle larger thatn the first smaler one...you will see what it is you may be doing wrong when you play the tape back...Aloha!
 

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Is there an age limit on that MSF safety course discount?

I recently bought my insurance through progressive for $50/month. That's full coverage, and a low deductable. Course, I'm an old fogey at 26. :p
 

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I dont think there is an age limmit.

I was quoted as 1800 a year for a 2000 zx6 and 1750 for a 98 zx6 with 4k miles to roam free with.. and full coverage, liability, comprehensive, and collission.

I pay 460 a year for my ex500 for liability and comprehensive... No collision for me! Had I gotten collission It would have jumped to 1000 per year. Oh yeah and im 21 and did pass the msf.. all this with progressive. I would have it cheaper with geico but they would not insure me cause I dont have a car driver's license! Can you believe that?????

I gess according to them driving a car and riding a motorcycle are the same thing!

So 170 a month does seem pricy
 

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old thread guys.......she posted it in Aug of 2004.:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 

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1600pilot said:
old thread guys.......she posted it in Aug of 2004.:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Had me going there for a minute when I saw Aaron's post. :)

I think we should commend people for reading the board so thoroughly!
 
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