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Discussion Starter #1
hey i just bought a 99 ninja 500 R and i wanted to change the oil. i was wondering what you guys use and if you had any bad experiences with any of the oils. i heard mobile 1 synthetic is good.. is this tru? also i will go with a new fram filter.
 

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I've heard lots of people say Mobile 1 works just great. I use Castrol Act-Evo fully synthetic motorcycle oil in my 250. The only really bad experiences I've heard of are when people use "fuel saving" auto oil in a motorcycle. It makes the clutch slip. Other auto oils are fine, just as long as they don't have the "saves gas" emblem.
Curt
 

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OIL

Just make sure that you have over 3,000 miles or your rings will not properly seat. Until then use a 10-40. Whewn you go to a synthetic, if you can change the filter without changing all the oil do that for every other oil change. Synthetic oils are much better than Dino oils. changing the filter and adding the amount of oil to refill it it all you will have to do about every other time...REALLY!
 

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But it's only about $6 more to change all the oil with every filter change, so why not? Am I throwing away $6? Yeah, maybe, but it makes me feel good, so why shouldn't my baby get the best?

Amsol has some great demonstrations about the longevity of their oils.
Curt
 

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oil changes

That's okay...IF you get a chance to go to one of their demo's take a quart of your oil "Castrol Act-Evo fully synthetic" and see how it compares...might be interesting to see one even come close...
 

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Re: OIL

ZX-2R said:
Just make sure that you have over 3,000 miles or your rings will not properly seat.
I am wondering what you are basing the 3000 mile recommendation on. Why not 2000 or 1000 or after the 600 mile break in? I am not trying to be a smart a$$. Just wondering. Where can I get additional advice that 3000 miles is the proper time to switch?

I switched my old ride over at 4000, but that was mainly because it had a service contract for oil changes that expired at about 4000 miles.

I have a new bike that has 600 miles on it and am considering Synthetic at some point in the future, but have still not decided for sure when to switch. AMSOIL looks good as does Mobil1. I would consider the AMSOIL, but have not found any in the local auto stores yet.

Thanks for your help,
Dave
 

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Castrol told me that I can start using synthetic right away -- no problem. So I did it with my first oil change at just over 500 miles. They said there's no problem with rings seating. I have heard other people express concern about it, though.
Curt
 

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Curt said:
Castrol told me that I can start using synthetic right away -- no problem.
Curt

Thanks for the info. I am beginning to think that switching after the initial break in is ok. Being a mechanical engineer I am looking for something from an authoritative source. Castrol would be one, but I'd like to see it in writing.

I ask Mobil about their 20w50 after telling them I lived near Phoenix and that the manufacturer recommends 10w40 and they said use the 10w40 if that's what the manufacturer recommends. I was looking for what is better for the heat here and got an easy answer. You never know who is in the other end.

Anyway, there was a lonk on here, I think, that said 90% of break in is done on the 1st 20 miles. I should go back and read that again.

These guys at BMW http://www.bmwoforlando.com/pages/services/tech/faq/syn-oil.htm

Switch to synthetics at 6000 or 600. Not sure how to interpret their site, but I'm guessing the 6000 is a typo. What do you think.

My quest continues. If I come up with something decent I will post it.

Thanks
Dave
 

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OIL

Basically you shouldn't switch over till your rings are properly seated...IF you were/are keeping records and you have noticed that your gas mileage has finally leveled out and is about as good as it is going to get then you can switch over. I worked alot with bikes and Kart motors and once you get them properly seated then it is the best time to change over. It's not a dumb question. If you look at a new cylinder hone it has a cross hatch hone to it swirls that are not quite microscopic because you can see them...once the rings seat your gas mileage will level off (getting better gas mileage) and then the cylinder would appear to be almost a pure shine to it...but if you looked real close you would not see minor scratches any more only really tiny dings or pitts in the cylinder sleeve...this is waht holds the oil as small as they actually are. I am not an AMSOIL dealer and ther is NOTHING wrong with any Synthetic as far as I know...just do some research, seriously about micron sizes of material passing through the paper elements. I'm not a salesperson...I let that decision go to the person that owns the bike...
Thanks for asking...it really makes me feel good to have a valid answer...!
 

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Re: OIL

ZX-2R said:
Basically you shouldn't switch over till your rings are properly seated...I am not an AMSOIL dealer and ther is NOTHING wrong with any Synthetic as far as I know...just do some research, seriously about micron sizes of material passing through the paper elements.
Thanks for asking...it really makes me feel good to have a valid answer...!
I see what you are saying. It depends. Full ring seating can be variable, so a magic mileage number is not possible. Different engines, different drivers/riders. Short of tearing an engine down the best guage is MPG.

It makes sense.

What are your thoughts on break in as it relates to manufacturer RPM/ MPH limits? Or are short durations of exceeding these limits beneficial as stated here http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm ?

Thanks for your help,
Dave
 

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Breakin

I seriously believe that during break in you should vary the temps on your bike and the only way to do that is to ride different terains from city in the beginning to finally mountain roads getting it warn on the up hills and letting it cool on the down hills...the key is thermal...to breaking one in right...The guide lines of so many RPM is sort of a part of that, But I don't agree that it should be so absolute...it's only a guide line to keep people from winding their bikes out like in first gear and holding it there....Just like loading your car with 5 people and a trunk load of stuff instead of just you. the load is the difference...with 5 people in teh car it ahould take longer and work harder to get to speed...unlike just yourself. Ther eare no secrets just some guide linse to keep some people from exceeding the limits. IF you took a brand new sissal rope and tied an anchor to it and could swing it around and around (with a swivel hook in it) you could swing it and break the line as it hasn't worn in or stretched properly and worn into itself,...later after hours of this you could exceed the rate because now it has stretchedd nd worn the fibers so that they are now smooth and tight and work together...
I don't know if theis helps, but I wouldn't go redlining the bike...once the bike is broken in I wouldn't but very seldom hit redline unless I was in 6th gear...because it would have much more drag, or a load on it than you would say in fiorst gear where it would just spin itself into hundreds of peices/// this make any sense???
 

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ipscshooter said:
These guys at BMW http://www.bmwoforlando.com/pages/services/tech/faq/syn-oil.htm

Switch to synthetics at 6000 or 600. Not sure how to interpret their site, but I'm guessing the 6000 is a typo. What do you think.

My quest continues. If I come up with something decent I will post it.
Great web site! Thanks for the link! Looks like Castrol Syntec is (or at least was) Group III, and that certainly makes me second guess their motorcycle oil, too.

I didn't see any mention of switchover there. I think the 6000 is just their oil change interval.

Please do post what you learn.

ipscshooter said:
What are your thoughts on break in as it relates to manufacturer RPM/ MPH limits? Or are short durations of exceeding these limits beneficial as stated here http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm ?
I've heard some people claim that riding your bike as hard as possible is the best way to break it in. But I figure that the manufacturers have researched this more than anyone else, and they all say to keep the RPM's down. So Kawaskai says to go easy, and Joe Blow says ride it hard. Who do you think I listened to?
Curt
 

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Just remember your oil is only as good as the filter. Cheap filters like Fram and the like let alot of stuff get past, which causes engine wear and long term damage. I haven't had a chance to research bike filters and possible choices of vendors and the like, but I know in my truck I use either a WIX filter (napa), a K&N filter, or the Mobil1 filter. All have tested great in labs, so why argue with independant engineers.
As far as break in, I'd do what the manaufacturer suggestes, no redlines, and no hammering on the throttle, for the break in period. Everything in your motor needs to find it place, and settle in, this goes for the the pistons, rings, valves crank cam etc. Once you are broken then you can have fun. Its a bike on 2 wheels why take a chance, breaking stuff in wrong, when you may need that possible lost performance one day in a apinch
 

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Re: Breakin

ZX-2R said:
I seriously believe that during break in you should vary the temps ...the key is thermal...to breaking one in right...The guide lines of so many RPM is sort of a part of that, But I don't agree that it should be so absolute... this make any sense???
I agree that cycling the load, thereby, the thermal profile during break in is important. I also, agree that the RPM/MPG limits are guidelines. Without them some folks would redline in every gear straight out of the showroom.

I personally am varying my speeds, loads, and RPM's. I did exceed the 3000 RPM limit during the 1st 500 miles and occasionally exceed the 4000 on my way to the 1000 mile break in period. I exceed these limits for short durations during acceleration and then shift to the next gear. I did that on my last bike and the 800A ran great and never burned any oil.

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter.

Dave
 

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[/quote]Great web site! Thanks for the link! Looks like Castrol Syntec is (or at least was) Group III, and that certainly makes me second guess their motorcycle oil, too.

I didn't see any mention of switchover there. I think the 6000 is just their oil change interval.

So Kawaskai says to go easy, and Joe Blow says ride it hard. Who do you think I listened to?
Curt[/quote]

I thought the BMW site was pretty good also.

I had read about the Castrol semi synthetic sometime ago and decided to stay away from ALL Castrol, so I wouldn't inadvertently buy the wrong thing. Just my personal choice.

I think something in the middle is the road for me. Along the lines of my last post. I'm coming to the conclusion that I will wait until at least 2000 miles to switch to synthetics. Here is another link that has good info on quality filters (I agree with Saki in KY on this) and info on break in.

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/FilterXRef.html
 

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Just to throw my experience into the mix,

I had Mobil 1 in the bike and it rode fine. No issues, nothing notable. The oil wore well, can't complain.

I switched to a Mobil heavy duty oil, Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15w40. My clutch grabs a lot better with this oil than it did Mobil 1. The engine runs just as smooth, also nothing notable about it's performance, aside from the clutch.

I'm not knocking synthetics, I'm aware of the differences between the two. I'll have to watch the oil closer and change it more often. I know motorcycle oils vs. auto oils is a subject of hot discussion as well, so I hope I didn't open a can of worms there...

Some good reading material:
http://www.ducatimeccanica.com/oil.html
http://www.yft.org/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm


Edit: "the bike" is a '98 EX500
 

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oil

When it comes down to racing like the 600 mile racing cars are doing like the past weekend, they are definately using synthetic oils and they have sponsors paying them an dgiving them support , or they wouldn't be running the decal on the car...also if you look in hte motorcycle magazines hte same things,,,now if we had the european and American oils available in every napa, orielies, pep boys, auto zone, shop like that on the open road...that carried our oil that would be great...AMSOIL is not going to be found like that...it has to go through private dealers...their filters ar e manufactured by primarily WIX because of the quality control and tight restrictions required for the oil filter...When I go across country I will have either a pint of AMSOIL with me or at least half dozen dealers along the route and have already sent or received at my destinations enough to do an oil and filter change...should I not have what I need when I need it, I have no problem with running any of the top quality synthetic oils found on the side of racing cars...if you keep very accurate records and record everything you will know when to switch your oil from dino oil to synthetic. once you are running it you should get enough protection to last you as long as you are riding the bike. still there will be wear as metals heat/cool, expand/contract, and they stretch an require replacement not usually because of wear. Bad gas, usually mor common stuff in the air that our air filters can't stop like smoke particulates at .250 microns...you just can't stop all the contamination fron getting into hte bike. but you can change thet oil and keep the filters changed...
 
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