[neverendingmods]

I have 2-stroke experience(been awhile) and last 2 strke was my street bike(twin cyl. 350/Yamaha I still have) so I am familiar with jetting and clip position in regards to throttle position. Not to mention, the new 500 comes with a great "get you in ballpark" tuning guide. But has the KIPS system I am not at all familiar with. Well, my problem is, at near sea level, I am fouling plugs almost right away. Good blue smoke at idle. Actually kinda on heavy side. I have air screw set 1/4 tun out past factory recommended 1.5 turns. Still stock jet and clip location. The tuning guide from Kawa states at my alt. and temps., I should be ideal where I'm at. Stock jet and clip setting. I'm on 3rd plug and put 100oct gas using recommended 32-1 mix but once I crack the throttle, plug gets wet. Sooty and "all" black but looking like it is just pig rich beyond 3/8 throttle. My question is should I mess with stock jet and just up the clip position? Or, is it more common with this bike to have to play with actual jet sizes? I appreciate any feedback from the know how to tuners. Especially someone familiar with the KIPS KX500.

Thanks

 

[neverendingmods]

ANY KIPS 500 riders out there? Need some help. Plug costs are adding up not yo mention my neighbors aren't liking the full throttle 1st gear runs/ then kills to read plugs. I'm still running stock 8 heat range. Any suggestions. I am adjusting things and now uni is in I will up clip position one click and see how she fares.

 

[ZX-2R]

hmm

I'm an old 2 stroke guy...take your screw IN the quarter turn so that it is at the stock setting, switch over to AMSOIL or 100% synthetic, then try to replace your air filter with a k&n, and you may have to increase the heat range up one one notch. I don't understand why the rich setting unless you need to set te screw back in to keep it from running that rich. You could sk the guys riding or the shops out ther what jetting an ssuch to use. They may tell you and talk is free. it may be that a float is sticking, but I would think more likely it is jetting. Still if it is running rich and going to a hotter plug would clean things up you will be getting better more fuel, hotter spark. Is your exhaust clean or could it be full of oil and gunk? removing it and flushing it out with diesel will clean it out completely. Another thing is that instead of the 100LL gas swap out to a tank of like 91/93 octane. 100LL can go stale on you and cause the same problems that you have. You didn't mention if you were riding it hard like near redline and if you are literally bogging eht engine then you are causing the problem by not allowing the bike to work like it should at high rpm's...

 

[neverendingmods]

Thanks for response. I gased up w/ fresh(from sunoco) 100oct and replaced plug that was obviously fouled( everypart sooty black and thick buildup). Bike is(was) brand new and had less than 1 hr test time when I got it. I figured maybe bad gas/oil mix or that since bike was shipped from farther North( higher alt.) that jetting may be off. So I started from beginning going by manual and 1.5 turns out of air screw which also needed to adjust idle since bike died after 10 seconds of idling before I messed with it. Only this 260lb guy at dealer test rode bike and I am familiar with twin cylinder street 2-strokes. So plug reading is a given. So, once I got bike and went riding, I immediately noticed that at beyond half throttle there was major power loss and idle had excessive blue smoke.(all this on the dealer gas and pre mix). So I air screw to 1.5(fact.) setting and went .25/.5 turns out, new plug and 100 oct w/32/1 mix using synthetic racing premix oil. This bike is showing(plug wise) signs of richness at above .5 throttle position. My RD350 stock + pipes and jets pulled x5 times harder and longer than this 500. I understand the 500 single will hit hard and quick,making for quick gear changes. But, Full throttle is useless unless I want to put a new plug in afterwards. One up on stock jet clip osition was(is) gonna be my next guess. I just wanted to see if other KX500 E-16 owners found bigger/smaller jet sizes to be required.
Also, been awhile since RD been running. But, doesn't turning "in" air screw richen it up at idle to 1/8 throttle positions? I am having trouble while trying to "full bore" the thing once warmed up. Thanks for ideas and your time. My dealer was shocked I bought 6 plugs off bat. I know fine tuning is frustrating and plug is good for one run only. So no signs of detonation or misfire just richness. Got better power response wise with new gas and fresh plug but still not there yet.

Eric

 

[neverendingmods]

Running better 8) . I picked up some items at shop and talked to the service dept and was given team greens corrections from a pamphlet that has all the 2 stroke corrections in it. Used it as a reference and not a guide. So far I have only had to up clip position. Which is dropping the needle down. I have a hotter plug(a 7eg) incase needed on really hot/humid days. I'm still using the 8eg stock plug. I couldn't find at either local shops a K&N filter but picked up a UNI for now.

Thanks

 

[shift1313]

im sorry i missed your first post. sounds like a beast of a time. You could also play with your raito. i know 32:1 is optimal but you can play with that some. Now the air screw or the air circuit is just for idle. the jets mess with the rest of everything. and its backwards from four strokes(just for people reading and just the air screw. You turn it out on a 4 stroke and its more fuel). i dont know much about the rd or rz carbs. I would start, just where you have, by dropping the needle down by raising the clip. If this doesnt help as much as you hoped kawasaki does offer different needles with different tapers. you might need one with less of a taper.
http://www.teamgreennews.ca/pdf/2004_jetting_chart.pdf

that is the pdf file of team greens reccomend jettings for the 04 kx's. this may be what your dealer gave you. good luck with it

 

[neverendingmods]

Thank you for the pdf of 04 settings. My dealer has only a copy and it cut off at the 500 TG settings so I was given an 01 setting guide for all their 2 strokes . Thanks for updated info . I, like you mentioned, have gone to a mix of 40:1 rather than 32:1 now she's well broken in. This helped alot along with the up 1 clip position. She is getting there. Luckily I have a guy at work with the plug blaster :wink: . I was recommended by a fellow big bore guy to try an 8ES plug(fatter electrode which helps reduce fouling/arching). I will take your supplied 04 offsets and give it a shot. :idea:

 

[shift1313]

i hope it works out for you. Im not sure how well the fatter electrode will work for you. Its really the heat range that helps out the most in these cases. the fatter electrode probobly produces more of a spark. not too sure. If others reccomend it go for it. As you can see in the pdf they offer different profile needles (atleast on the 250s, didnt read the 500s). that might be another option for you. next step really is rejetting the carb and leaning out the mains.

keep me up to date. id like to know what setup finally works for you

 

[neverendingmods]

I am probably gonna try the TG settings/ the 01 and 04 jettings are identical. They recommend going to a #55 rather than a #58 pilot jet which should lean the needle and main jet setting along with other carb settings. . (See PDF attatchment for settings). TG goes to a B9EVX plug aswell.

She ran well w/40:1 mix and 8EG plug. The warmer the better running. I am gonna try same (2nd clip pos.) and a 8ES plug and see how it lasts. First minor wreck( ) and after i gained air, I had to replace plug again. Plugs(8EG) are oil covered no matter the position of throttle after 1/8. Full throttle abilty improves after 15 mins. of warmup.

I am worried thet the hotter(one step) can cause piston failure. Any feedback of use of the 7ES plug (one step hotter) will help me out greatly.)

Thanks,
Eric

 

[shift1313]

generally one heat range doesnt cause failure unless your ignition system is out of whack, espeically if you are that oil fouled you should be alright. I wouldnt go an hotter then a 7 though. The difference between the eg and the evx is about 20 bucks the evx are supposedly platnum if i remember correctly. dropping just the pilot will help you with very small throttle inputs but not everywhere. If you find you are still having problems wide open with it after you drop the pilot, id drop your main jet one size also. If you are going to get into the jetting i would definately leave the stock heat range plug in and put the needle back on the stock clip. This way you can dial in the jets and then still have some adjustment to play with. I would hate to have you dial it in then need to move the needle 2 clips but only have one. Where is your air screw set at now? You dont have to set it back to stock. especially if you feel you are getting close to the right settings but thats just how ive done it, then again ive never had the much trouble with a stock bike. Im sorry you are having so many problems with the stock bike.

again let me know how things progress
good luck

 

[neverendingmods]

Thanks for the tips :wink: . Yeah, I'm gonna first try the hotter plug(7ES) w/clip 1 up. The 1 up of clip position keeps it from dying while 3/8 throttle up to 3/4 throttle. Not dying, but rather from instantly fouling and then stalling after juicing her. I am going to Tower City this weekend in PA.(Sun) and am taking 6 plugs w/ me for Sunday ride. :roll: 1 7ES, 1 new 8EG, 2 blasted 8EG's, and 2 8 ES's. As you said, I am trying to stay away from using the leanest clip position. If the hotter plug is too hot or no difference is seen, I will then go to a smaller main jet size. It's funny, all the past dirtbikes I owned or ridden were all pretty **** close to being at optimal perfonce settings from factory. The 500, Kawasaki lets it just go w/ no tuning other than Japan's initial setting. I like it this way. I get to dial it in and each time I get closer, she is really starting to wake up. I signed alot of papers acknowledging this. Along with the 1st or 2nd page of manual stating the like. I'll let you know how I make out on Sunday being I will put an easy 4-5 hours of riding time on her. 2.5 hr drive for me just to get there so wish me luck. No punctures, please no punctures :!:

edit-- Forgot, I have the air screw set 1 3/4 near 2 turns out. Originally, it was 1 turn out and smoked bad @ idle. Outer ring of plug is not showing signs of fouling now. Nice and clean. When I gave the plugs to buddy at work to blast, he was like :shock: . I got the .." yeah, she's running rich.." saying.

 

[shift1313]

i wish you luck man. i think youll be able to get it dialed in enough to ride but to really be happy you will end up with a few new jets, let me know how she does

have fun

 

[neverendingmods]

Just wanted to keep you up to date. I am still struggling. After I dented the pipe at widest section(pretty minor but a chambered stock pipe) and I bought a FMF Gnarly pipe and turbine core silencer along w/ a UNI filter. I was having fouling problems before but it felt pretty consistent across the rev band before build up on plug. Since new exh. and intake which I hoped would lean it out, has been a big disappointment. The power curve has diminished to only full throttle. Partial feels like it's breaking up. 3/4 to full throttle and she's fine. FMF's recommendation is the stock 168 main, and stock/3rd clip position, but going to a #52 pilot rather than stock #55 pilot jet. I am still using the #55 pilot but not on purpose. I pulled and read my pilot(stamped #55) and reinstalled than went riding. 1500ft above where I normally ride at but bad breakup. So, got a 52.5 from dealer/whom is merging w/HondaEast, and got the totally wrong pilot jet. Doesn't even fit the thread diameter. Not close. I'll let you know how she runs w/ the #52 pilot jet and full FMF exhaust+UNI. If worse comes to worse, I will put on stock exhaust w/ the FMF turbine core silencer + UNI and see how it does. Seems like I have gone far away from desired direction. Talked to 3 CR500 owners w/ same pipe and they changed nothing except one guy who went 1 clip leaner. I tried that position initially but had NOTHING but wide open response..

I will get this figured out soon.

Later

 

[shift1313]

it sucks that your still having problems. drop your needle all the way down and drop your main two sizes. then play with your needle clip positions from there. if you can get a few different sizes of each. Rule of thumb, if your plug comes out black you should drop it 4 jet sizes and try again. the fact that your getting good power wot but then loading up, it seems somethings really wrong with your bike that shouldnt be. the elevation shouldnt make it this hard. where do the other cr500 owners ride? same elevation? i really hope you can get this figured out. I dont know anyone who rides a kx500 any more. you could always cut some holes in the side of your airbox and let more air in to lean it out some. every little bit will probobly help you.

just remember that you needle clip position will affect your 1/4-3/4 throttle and your main affects over 1/2 throttle. pilot and air really do low stuff below 1/8th throttle. so you can ride below 1/2 and see if it loads up in 2nd gear. then you can try above 3/4. are you still running 8 series plug?

 

[neverendingmods]

Thanks Shifty. 8) I am almost 100% there. I dropped the pilot down to a #52 kept the main at #168(stock) . I think I may try what you just said and drop the main down. Keihin goes from 168 to a 165 and nothing inbetween. So #165 main I am going to next. I will drop the clip position down one to 4th location and go from there. I will tell you, since changing the pilot to a #52, it does wheel stands like crazy. Making partial throttle pretty **** agressive . What I was originally expecting. Plug shows good color now when kept below 3/4 throttle. Put a BIG smile on my face 1st rip session after changes :twisted: . I'll post update when I drop the main to a #165. Finally can feel the hit like a 2-stroke should. Especially a 500. Thanks for the tips. Yes. I'm still running the 8 series. I have done both the 8eg and 8es. Now the tuning is better I will stick to the thin wire 8eg. I am currently trying to source a plug blaster for my self .

Eric

 

[shift1313]

thats great. plug blasters should be easy to come by. they are just sand blasters with very fine media. i think if you look in dennis kirk. or parts unlimited at your dealer you will see one. im glad your getting it closer to the fire breathing arm ripping ankle breaking beast it was meant to be. be sure to keep good records so when someone comes in here with the same question you will have all the answers

 

[neverendingmods]

Not a problem :wink: . I have a notebook I began listing what each adjustment I made did. Just today I put the stock pilot jet in a bag(one of many to come) and made a note of #55 on it. My buddy hawking over my shoulder pointed out it was actually a #58. :shock: The owners manual from Kawa and the FMF jet instruction both state a stock #55 pilot. My blind glasses reading butt missed that. So going to a #52 rather than a #58 is no surprise I feel such a partial throttle improvement. Not too lean though. But no wonder a big difference. I still feel a slight breakup at 3/4 to full just as power band kicks in so the #165 main will be next to try. Shame my dealer is merging. I need to buy a nice keihin assorted jet kit. But, I think the #58 was the culprit. The main says # real big. The pilot is so small I blurred it. This thing isn't to bad to jet, a little frustrating at times. But when you get something right... Whoa, what a difference. My dept parts guy said he touched nothing even when changing to the exact full exhaust I have. His is 10yrs older but not much has changed. I will frequent this forum as I am a tinkering fool and like to help just as much as I like to be helped.

Two strokes are the most rewarding when it comes to small carb changes.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Cheers!! 8)

 

[shift1313]

wow, a 58, thats crazy. i really hope you get it figured out. im having a time jetting my bike right now but for a different reason. because its street legal its very lean from the factory. i hope to hear good things from your next ride like, you didnt have to change your plug at all. good luck man

 

[neverendingmods]

Yeah shifty, she's almost there. I'm telling you she is getting scary/fun. You know what I mean. I like it when no one asks to ride your bike. I will try the #165 main and see what happens(dropping clip of course). I just want a properly tuned bike. When I go back to street bike, it will be a carb bike(carbs). I'll let you know this weekend how the #165 treats full throttle. Glad I got a good, new, RK chain for when all is said and done. Stocker has 12-14 hrs and stretched beyond adjustment. Not to mention rear tire is 2/3 gone. That was while running rich. I pray every day the LEAN GODS stay at bay.

Thanks for the help.

 

[neverendingmods]

Keeping the 168 main and #52 pilot w/ a 40/1 mix but trying a 7ES plug util I stalled her. Alot harder to fire back up w/ the 7 ES. No color difference but to much of a mofo to restart. Hope it means I'm nearly there w/ the jets. I ordered a #158-170 main jet kit(pretty cheap). The pilots are the expensive SOB's. I have a #58 and a #52 pilot. I would like to get in the middle abit.

By the way, just ripped my valve stem. Gotta keep the PSI up to atlest 13 psi now she's rippin. Good Luck with your jetting. Your Avatar shows you aint to rich. :wink: