[Mercury]

So while my original lesson of "road bike + gravel = doesn't go too well" still stands, I think I understand more about why I had my accident.

Last week I had another accident. The exact same story as before only this time I was at a set of traffic lights, turning left, ran wide, collected the kerb and landed onto the bottom of the mall in the middle of town. So I narrowed it down to my cornering from a standing start. Now I was taught to keep my revs high-ish and just ease the clutch out which I've been doing, or so I thought. It seems I've only been doing this in a straight line. I've been sitting here thinking about both accidents and have come to the conclusion that my initial takeoff is fine but as I get to about mid-corner I'm just dumping the clutch, which is landing me in the middle of my powerband thanks to my high-ish revs. Suddenly I have loads of power, I panic, ease off the throttle, run wide and suddenly find myself up the proverbial creek without any paddling apparatus.

I came to riding as what I would consider a fairly capable driver.. but only a driver of automatic transmission vehicles. So I've never had to learn the finer art of gears and the clutch. I understand how it works but putting into practice is something else. The bike has been repaired and my bruises have healed so, as soon as the weather stops being so rough, I'm hitting the carparks to learn to feather the clutch at slow speeds.

I should have known better after my first accident. I knew I should have spent more time in the carparks doing what I felt I needed to but instead I listened to what my friend/riding buddy wanted to do (I am not blaming him) and wanted to practice. I always knew I should be riding for me and within my limits but now I understand it.

So there's several lessons learned now.. but I'm sick of learning them the hard way. I've enquired about private tuition and looks like the best I can get is $100per hour but I think it should be worth it.

My suggestion is to get off the high RPM kick.... Having high rpm for any reason is not a good thing - if you slip off the clutch especially on that light bike of yours it is sure to end you up in a ditch.

Change your whole scheme - I say learn how to take off going stright using the throttle and the clutch - blip the throttle if you have to - on that bike you should not be taking off any more then say 3 - 4000 RPM and thats even high in my opinion.

the trick about taking off is that in the middle of the turn normal steering does not work any more - you have to counter steer once you get up to 8 - 10 mph

I suggest at a minimum go to a parking lot with a friend and set up some cones.

I suggest that you take some sort of course - $100 is a small price to pay if it will save your bike, your gear, and yourself.

Good luck - We are rooting for ya!

kenny

 

[downtown_donna]

I haven't read all of the entries in this thread. Did you take an MSF class?
This is money well spent. You can talk to the instructors about your experiences ahead of time and they can advise you about whether or not the class will help or they can help you practice specicifcs. If you have taken the MSF class then getting some private lessons from a certified instructor would be the way to go.

 

[ChevelleSSLS6]

Get one just like your old bike, or look for something a little bigger- if you're comfortable with it- test ride it before buying! Also taking a class would be good (that's what I did, and I'm not pro but it teaches valuable skills).
I love my ex650/E6RN!!!
info
more info <that has a forum that I signed up for but I'm still not 'approved' by admins.. odd...

 

[1sportbikerider]

Okay, this is going to sound really harsh - which it is - but, Cariad, you really SUCK right now at riding.

If I were you I wouldn't be riding on the open road until your skills are a lot more consistent.

You should find an empty secluded parking lot somewhere and practice turning from a dead stop, slow turns, quick stopping, stopping in a turn, etc. until you are a lot more consistent, and until you don't SUCK so bad.

I know the open road is calling you, however, it wont be much fun - as you can see - if you are falling every time you change direction.

Ride safe.

 

[Cariad]

Okay, this is going to sound really harsh - which it is - but, Cariad, you really SUCK right now at riding.

If I were you I wouldn't be riding on the open road until your skills are a lot more consistent.

You should find an empty secluded parking lot somewhere and practice turning from a dead stop, slow turns, quick stopping, stopping in a turn, etc. until you are a lot more consistent, and until you don't SUCK so bad.

I know the open road is calling you, however, it wont be much fun - as you can see - if you are falling every time you change direction.

Ride safe.

Firstly,

It is a little harsh. I have been very open and honest and don't particularly appreciate the delivery of your message. You seem to think that because I only mention the bad stuff that I have a complete inability to ride. The night before my accident my friend and I had rode around the city for nearly two hours without any mishap on my part. We rode through the exact same corner that I was to have my accident on. This is one of many solo and partnered rides I've ridden through the city with slow corners, hard braking (for various reasons) and gear changes. My current skill level is clearly no where near yours and nor should it be. I already feel quite bad about coming off the second time, I don't really need your unconstructive comments to make me feel worse.

Secondly,

Thank you for your advice. Clearly I have a habit that I must correct before it gets me into further trouble.

For those who don't know. In Australia, we have to take a course before we are able to legally ride on the road. So I have completed the equivalent (from what I can gather) of a MSF course.

Mercury,
Thanks for your suggestions. The bike idles at about 1.5 revs and I've been having her sit at around 3.5 for the starts. Obviously, "high" is relative lol. And, I noticed the different steering mid-way through the corner, it's a little weird but just something I'll need to get used to I guess.

 

[DrunkenMonkey]

I think you're seeing the other side of the "don't hammer the brakes in a turn" coin. The point is that any sudden change in throttle or brake input in a turn is potentially bad news, because you're already using much of the available grip to keep the bike turning.

It sounds like the root issue is predictable power delivery, and as such, could have stayed in your "Clutch control" thread.

I think you want to practice modulating the clutch; there's no law that says you have to engage 100% of the clutch while making your way through an intersection. You could rev the motor to redline while making that turn (don't try this!), but as long as you only let out enough clutch to apply the power at the desired speed and quantity, you'd get through the turn without crashing.

Well, most riders would, but you seem to have developed a taste for street surfing. I kid!

Realistically, though, you're probably already slipping the clutch in city traffic starts, right? I know that my bike accelerates much faster than about 90% of the cars in front of me, so if I'm behind traffic, I'll gradually feed in clutch over a span of maybe three seconds while traffic in front of me gets moving. If I did a normal-speed start, I'd end up in someone's back seat.

 

[TVoyagerXII]

Glad to hear you're alright. Good to hear there are still some decent, caring folks still out there too.

 

[KraZ440]

I came to riding as what I would consider a fairly capable driver.. but only a driver of automatic transmission vehicles. So I've never had to learn the finer art of gears and the clutch. I understand how it works but putting into practice is something else. The bike has been repaired and my bruises have healed so, as soon as the weather stops being so rough, I'm hitting the carparks to learn to feather the clutch at slow speeds.

One thing that I practice is letting the clutch out while the bike idles. This helps my hand learn how far and how fast it can let out the clutch without killing the bike. You should be able to get the bike moving and take your hand off the clutch without ever increasing your RPMs beyond idle.

As others have already said, you really don't need high RPMs to get a bike going. Low RPMs can do the job just fine. The higher RPMs just mean you can be sloppier with your clutch control without killing the bike and can get up to speed faster (not usually the thing you want to do when starting a turn).

Don't lose heart. Get out to a carpark and practice at the lower RPMs. One thing my MSF instructors stressed is muscle memory. Given enough practice, your hand will learn how far and how fast to release the clutch. Just remember to keep the RPMs low. It's easier to speed the bike up if you start too slow, then it is to slow it down if you start too fast.

 

[tely]

Just a quick update:

My bike is officially a write-off. They can repair her, she's mechanically fine but it's not worth it financially for them to repair her fairings, muffler, etc. I cried all the way home, which was a bit stupid as I was driving at the time (don't want ANOTHER accident).. and couldn't stop crying for nearly an hour. I didn't realise how attached I'd become to her.. my little baby girl.

They're paying me market value which is way above what I paid for her, which should cover what I had to spend on her after I bought her.. and I should get reimbursed for the remainder of my registration which is nearly all of it. So with any lucky I will be able to buy another zzr.

Basically, I will be back to square 1 with my bank balance and looking for a bike.

Anyone else feel a bit distraught with their bike being a write-off? I know it's only a bike and I know I should be thrilled I walked away from it and I am. I'm just upset that she was so broken.

C.

P.S. I was sobbing my heart out and sent a distraught message to my friend saying my girl had been written off. He sent one back saying "Oh no! That's terrible! Now we'll have to think of more names. " .. I love friends, sometimes they know exactly how to pick you up.

in the pictures....there is a grey one and a black one that looks kind of purple/black.....which is your bike?......if it was the same one and thats how you fixed her up...she was sweet.

 

[ThumpinKwaka]

Using high (er) revs usually applies when taking off from standing start 'cos your facing uphill or.... your getting ready to drag it down the strip! :lol:

Oh, and pullin' mono's

 

[KraZ440]

Using high (er) revs usually applies when taking off from standing start 'cos your facing uphill or.... your getting ready to drag it down the strip! :lol:

I guess I should have been a little more specific.

Practice clutch control on a smooth, flat surface. Don't bother trying the hills (or draggin' ) until you get the flat down first. If you don't have a flat surface. Point your bike downhill. :biggrin:

 

[likearock4x4]

Okay, this is going to sound really harsh - which it is - but, Cariad, you really SUCK right now at riding.

If I were you I wouldn't be riding on the open road until your skills are a lot more consistent.

You should find an empty secluded parking lot somewhere and practice turning from a dead stop, slow turns, quick stopping, stopping in a turn, etc. until you are a lot more consistent, and until you don't SUCK so bad.

I know the open road is calling you, however, it wont be much fun - as you can see - if you are falling every time you change direction.

Ride safe.

DUDE, your delivery sucks!!!

You could have gotten your point accross without cutting her down. Like she said, she feels bad enough without your cutting her down.

I'm pretty sure that she and most others here read the following when they started reading your post:

Okay, this is going to sound really harsh - which it is - but, Cariad, you really SUCK...blah, blah, blah. :redface:

I know that's what I read.

 

[likearock4x4]

One thing that I practice is letting the clutch out while the bike idles. This helps my hand learn how far and how fast it can let out the clutch without killing the bike. You should be able to get the bike moving and take your hand off the clutch without ever increasing your RPMs beyond idle.

As others have already said, you really don't need high RPMs to get a bike going. Low RPMs can do the job just fine. The higher RPMs just mean you can be sloppier with your clutch control without killing the bike and can get up to speed faster (not usually the thing you want to do when starting a turn).

Don't lose heart. Get out to a carpark and practice at the lower RPMs. One thing my MSF instructors stressed is muscle memory. Given enough practice, your hand will learn how far and how fast to release the clutch. Just remember to keep the RPMs low. It's easier to speed the bike up if you start too slow, then it is to slow it down if you start too fast.

+1, practice makes perfect.

The thing about getting into the higher revs is that this is where the power band is, and once you start getting into the powerband, the power comes on in a hurry. I'd say you only want to slightly increase the rpms from idle when taking off from a stop. Again, practice, practice, practice.

Oh, and one more thing... each bike is different, so practice on each bike that is new to you. Don't assume that the bike has the same response as yours just because it's the same model, because it's going to be different.

 

[ThumpinKwaka]

^^

+1

 

[1sportbikerider]

DUDE, your delivery sucks!!!

You are quite right, my delivery does suck, I won't disagree.

You could have gotten your point accross without cutting her down... Like she said, she feels bad enough without your cutting her down.

"Cutting her down" denotes something personal, while everything I have written above was limited exclusively to her riding ability.

Cariad, don't take my criticisms as personal, they in no way relate to how you are as a person. After completing the basic course here in the US graduates can receive their endorsements, but the course is just that; BASIC. Graduates are in no way proficient, and for many of them it would still not be safe (in fact it would be very dangerous) for them to go out and practice riding on some of the public roadways.

Many of the MSF (our course here in the US) graduates are still extremely uncomfortable with cornering the motorcycle, especially at low speeds. Additionally, the class is taught at very low speeds, which, although it does a great job of communicating the essentials of controlling the motorcycle, it is an unrealistic representation of the speeds that most of the people participating in the course will be travelling at once they graduate.

So, after graduating the course, and before really taking off onto the open roadways, I beleive that there is still a lot of BASIC practice that should continue to be done by any rider in a secluded area, to reinforce the techniques that were taught in the class.

PS: In reference to my original post, would I change it? No.

I believe for ANY OF US when at the stage you are at now (just out of class), have just enough knowledge to be dangerous. This is a real critical time when we all just didn't have much experience. And, we didn't even know enough, to know what we didn't know (read that last part three times).

So with that being said, it would be preferable to continue practicing for a little while longer away from traffic and other distractions, until skills were more refined.

======================

The short version: It's gonna take a lot of practice, choose your practice locations wisely.

 

[1sportbikerider]

So while my original lesson of "road bike + gravel = doesn't go too well" still stands, I think I understand more about why I had my accident.

Last week I had another accident. The exact same story as before only this time I was at a set of traffic lights, turning left, ran wide, collected the kerb and landed onto the bottom of the mall in the middle of town. So I narrowed it down to my cornering from a standing start. Now I was taught to keep my revs high-ish and just ease the clutch out which I've been doing, or so I thought. It seems I've only been doing this in a straight line. I've been sitting here thinking about both accidents and have come to the conclusion that my initial takeoff is fine but as I get to about mid-corner I'm just dumping the clutch, which is landing me in the middle of my powerband thanks to my high-ish revs. Suddenly I have loads of power, I panic, ease off the throttle, run wide and suddenly find myself up the proverbial creek without any paddling apparatus.

I came to riding as what I would consider a fairly capable driver.. but only a driver of automatic transmission vehicles. So I've never had to learn the finer art of gears and the clutch. I understand how it works but putting into practice is something else. The bike has been repaired and my bruises have healed so, as soon as the weather stops being so rough, I'm hitting the carparks to learn to feather the clutch at slow speeds.

I should have known better after my first accident. I knew I should have spent more time in the carparks doing what I felt I needed to but instead I listened to what my friend/riding buddy wanted to do (I am not blaming him) and wanted to practice. I always knew I should be riding for me and within my limits but now I understand it.

So there's several lessons learned now.. but I'm sick of learning them the hard way. I've enquired about private tuition and looks like the best I can get is $100per hour but I think it should be worth it.

===================
1sportbikerider really sucks for not offering a solution. I'm sorry I was tired.
===================

You can "dump the clutch" if you are sure you'll be ready for the power hit, which, at high revs, you have just found out is going to be pretty massive. High revs is always where you're going to get that kick, just be ready for it. You will be the next time.

Letting off the throttle while in the corner is really bad practice. First your speed drops - which is why you let off the throttle, yes I know - but, by doing that you upset the suspension (engine braking the rear wheel and throwing all the weight onto the front) making the bike harder to steer.

Really try to avoid doing this.

Second, at low speed - remember - it's really hard to control your speed by just using the throttle. It's ALL IN THE CLUTCH. At low speeds, think of the clutch as your speed control.

At low speeds, the clutch is your speed control.

At low speeds, the clutch is your speed control.

At low speeds, the clutch is your speed control.


PS: You're doing fine, corners will always bite you in the a**. However, you want to get up to a level where you're not deathly afraid of dropping every time you go out (although I must admit, I still am).

Some tips that might help:

> If you get surprised by the speed of the bike, pull in the clutch. Or, let off the throttle verrrrry gently. Chopping the throttle, will upset the suspension (rear wheel tries to lock-up, front wheel gets overloaded). It wont feel good.

> If you get surprised when you are leaned over in a corner focus on your exit point and nothing else. It really..., really..., really... works.

> If you need to stop while cornering, straighten the bike up first.

 

[downtown_donna]

Firstly,

It is a little harsh. I have been very open and honest and don't particularly appreciate the delivery of your message. You seem to think that because I only mention the bad stuff that I have a complete inability to ride. The night before my accident my friend and I had rode around the city for nearly two hours without any mishap on my part. We rode through the exact same corner that I was to have my accident on. This is one of many solo and partnered rides I've ridden through the city with slow corners, hard braking (for various reasons) and gear changes. My current skill level is clearly no where near yours and nor should it be. I already feel quite bad about coming off the second time, I don't really need your unconstructive comments to make me feel worse.

Secondly,

Thank you for your advice. Clearly I have a habit that I must correct before it gets me into further trouble.

For those who don't know. In Australia, we have to take a course before we are able to legally ride on the road. So I have completed the equivalent (from what I can gather) of a MSF course.

Mercury,
Thanks for your suggestions. The bike idles at about 1.5 revs and I've been having her sit at around 3.5 for the starts. Obviously, "high" is relative lol. And, I noticed the different steering mid-way through the corner, it's a little weird but just something I'll need to get used to I guess.

Firstly we want to encourage people not put them down. Cariad needs to get help and you can say the same thing 15 ways to Wednesday without being insulting. Insulting is NOT what this forum is about. If you want to feel better by putting someone down, go somewhere else.

Yes, Cariad needs help and needs to practice with a professional. Yes we can warn that continuing to ride without help could lead to extremely serious injury.

So Cariad take this as a concerned warning. I for one want you to succeed and I think you can do it. Spend some money on yourself with some good help. I mentioned MSF, go there, find an instructor who will get you some help if you do not want the class but that is where you should start now. It will make you enjoy riding for many many years to come.

 

[1sportbikerider]

If just one aquaintance of the contestants appearing on American Idol was honest and straight forward with them before they appeared on the show, then...

Sorry! But I guess it's my turn to be the a*h* that calls it like I see it.

Feel free to pick on me.

 

[KraZ440]

If you get surprised when you are leaned over in a corner focus on your exit point and nothing else. It really..., really..., really... works..

To reinforce this, don't just look at the exit point, but turn your head and point your nose at it (even if you have to crank your head around at it). It helps prevent target fixation on the wrong things. The bike will go where you are looking. If you look at the wrong things, you're more likely to end up in the wrong places.

 

[1sportbikerider]

For your next bike, it might be a good idea to install a set of crash bars. This will save you a lot of $$$ if you drop the bike. You can remove them later on when you are done with them. They just bolt on to the bike , either you or your local shop can install them.

A few of us have them on around here to limit damage when we take the bikes to the track.

Powers Stuntworx Crash Cage

If you like the chrome look

Another great option are race rails. They ofer pretty good protection as well.

Powers Stuntworx Race Rails