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... at the old, ballgame!
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Discussion Starter #1
Last night our local NBC affiliate (KOB TV channel 4) ran a news segment on riders speeding on the road to the crest.

For those of you not from Albuquerque, our city is bordered on the east by a 10,000 feet high mountain. The highest part of the mountain is called the crest. This is where a lot of the local TV and radio stations have their broadcast towers. The only way to get to the crest by road is up the east side of the mountain, on a two lane road. The speed limit on much of this road is 25 or 35 MPH.

This road is a favorite for riders, for several reasons. First, it is a nice scenic ride up the mountain, through mixed forest, with a nice place to stop at the top with a restaurant, amenities, and a million dollar view. Second, it is full of sharp, hairpin turns, making it a destination for those who like the steeps and twisties.

Several of the scenes in the movie "Wild Hogs" were filmed on the lower (and straighter) parts of this road.

The news segment addressed the issue of motorcyclists speeding up and down this road. County sheriffs were quoted saying they issued 20 or more citations to motorcyclists every weekend. The station had video of two sport bike riders passing a car on a double yellow line immediately before a blind curve. They also had video of sports bikes taking very sharp turns at high rates of speed (much higher than the speed limit).

Two sport bike riders were interviewed at the crest parking lot. One had an interesting observation. He felt that speed limits should be different for (what I think he called) "high performance vehicles" (I hope I'm quoting him accurately. I tried to find the video online, but the station hasn't posted it.)

To be fair, the riders they showed on video appeared to be skilled. They dragged their knees through the turns. They were wearing full gear, including reinforced leather suits (with the big reinforced knees) and FF helmets.

Also, I should point out that it is not just sport bike riders who like this road (even though the news report showed only sport bikes). I made the crest run this summer (to get experience on hills and sharp corners, albeit a lot slower than anyone else on the road) and saw all makes and models of bikes. Whenever the faster bikes came up behind me I pulled way over to the right, allowing them to pass safely even in no passing zones, and exchanged waves. I envied their confidence in their skills and their bikes.

My questions for the forum:

1) Were the riders shown passing a car on a double yellow line leading to a blind corner exhibiting any level of squidly behaviour? I think they were. It makes bikers look reckless and irresponsible, regardless of skill level. I think the reaction of most non-riders (and some riders, too, perhaps) would be to shake their heads in wonder.

2) What do you think of the multiple speed limit idea? A lot of states have different speed limits for cars and trucks. Does having a higher speed limit for "high performance vehicles" (read motorcycles) make sense?

I can sympathize with a skilled rider's desire to test that skill against the steeps and twisties. On the other hand, one thing speed limits try to do is enforce a uniform rate of travel. If you have cars going 25 and M/Cs going much faster, doesn't this invite trouble, particularly on blind corners? It's not a problem for the car following the bike, but it may be for bikes coming up on slower cars.

Who would define what a "high performance vehicle" is? Would it include cruisers? Would it include sports cars, like Porsches and Corvettes? Would you want a sports car careening around corners at 10 or more MPH faster than you, if you were not on a "high performance" bike, or just didn't like or feel comfortable going that fast (like me)?

(At least one of the bikes shown was Kawi green - I couldn't identify the make. If the rider is a member of the forum, I'd like his/her take on this.)
 

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I know at least 2 of the riders that were shown.

I'm gonna have to try and find the video, as I've not seen it yet. I'll do a decent respons once I get back from work (about to leave now)

Although I will say now:
The riders passing on double yellow are part of the group that those of us in Adrenalinelimit do NOT like to ride with. They are new riders who think they are too good to take it easy

And that Kawi Green is a -10R. I know the rider of that one, plus the 600RR with the smashed plastics
 

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I believe that road rules should not be any different for bikers than the rest.

I am from Albuquerque and although it is too big for my tastes now it was still my home for almost 40 years. The crest road, Madrid and more places than I care to mention on here continue to suffer the unrelentless pressures of being loved to death.
 

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Time to Ride
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heres the problem, no matter how skilled they are..........

they come around a blind turn doing double the limit, and run into the back of me whne I have my daughter on the back, I can honestly tell you, they better **** well hope they died in the crash,because there will only be one story when the cops get there.

I dont say this to be a jerk, but if you are on a closed road, and you pull crap that endangers you, so be it, you put my kids life in jeopardy, and your life aint worth squat to me.

i ride with all types of bikes, but, I have been on palomar mountain and seen how these " High performance riders" endanger people.

the reality is, and I challange anyone to show me different, but a bike leaned over far enough to where you are dragging a knee, that thing has to be brought upright before you can take evasive action.........

so you come around A blind turn, its over if something is in your way
 

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Also in Albuquerque. Sandia Crest is a favorite spot to take visiters. Lots of less skilled drivers going up to see the view. I generally don't go up there on weekends or during the middle of the summer when there might be a bunch of tourists. One of the guys I work with told me that last week they already had sand on the roads from an early snow. I would like to see the crest shut down to car traffic for a couple of days during the summer to make the road available for controlled speed runs but I don't expect that would make much difference to the guys that are trying to kill themselves.
 

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Power Hungry V2K Rider
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Real simple answers:

1) Were the riders shown passing a car on a double yellow line leading to a blind corner exhibiting any level of squidly behaviour? I think they were. It makes bikers look reckless and irresponsible, regardless of skill level. I think the reaction of most non-riders (and some riders, too, perhaps) would be to shake their heads in wonder.

YES. They are squids by all definitions of the act. Passing in the double yellow is inviting an accident, regardless of your level of competency. You may survive, it's the other guy(s) that might not.

2) What do you think of the multiple speed limit idea? A lot of states have different speed limits for cars and trucks. Does having a higher speed limit for "high performance vehicles" (read motorcycles) make sense?

No way in hades. The reason that trucks have slower speed limits is because trucks take so much longer to stop. Cars don't have higher limits because they are more agile. Look at the autoban. There you have a mixture of ultra high speed and "normal" speeds, mixed with a culture of drive right pass left. While the accident rate is lower than the US Interstate system, when an accident does happen there the consequences are radical.
 

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Poser Proud®
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The problem is that having a high performance vehicle, doesn't mean you have a high performance rider. Anyone can buy a bike. If you want to see this in real time, go to youtube and type in fatal motorcycle crash. It appears to be in Europe, but it is just like you describe, bike passing on double yellow, crosses line once and makes it, crosses again, and hit another motorcycle head on. Not a pretty sight.
 

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Vintage bike addict
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Seperate speed limits for "high performance vehicles" already exists across this big country of ours. It's called race tracks. Having different speed limits for different classes of vehicles makes driving a real pain. Many roads around here limit trucks to 55mph while the rest of us can go 65mph. Ever try to maintain legal speed behind a semi that's trying to pass another semi? Can't be done. If you just must see how fast your ride can go, get on a track.
 

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Full Circle Rider
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In my opinion - No, there should not be separate speed limits for "high performance" vehicles. And I'm an owner of both the four and two wheeled varieties. I've owned many a high performance car in my time and currently have a Porsche 944 Turbo in the garage with a Hayabusa as its stable mate. As such, I'd benefit greatly from a double standard. But would anyone else? In my opinion no. Indeed, the double standard would increase the risk for the general public, lead to more accidents, and likely increase fatalities as well.

I spent Sunday morning riding with a group of aggressive sport bike riders. I had a blast, but at the same time I realized that my enjoyment really did infringe on my fellow motorists. No, I didn't do anything stupid (except move a bit faster than what the signs said) - but I did video tape my ride. When I got home and took a look I was a bit surprised. Corners I thought I had gone through at just a bit over the limit were being traversed at a much greater rate than I recalled. And I was still being passed as if I was standing still.

At the first quick sweeper on our ride I went from being the number two bike to being the number four bike in our small group of six. Joyce - back with the sweep - was left in the proverbial cloud of dust. I watched the group take flight and I finished the run at my own pace. But, that pace was far faster than I had ever done this particular road before. I wasn't out of control, I wasn't going too fast for "my" abilities, but I was taking chances that I should not have taken. In a way it was a wake up call for me. Some may think it's great fun to video tape high speed hijinks and full throttle blasts - for me it just served to remind me that I am mortal and to slow down. I'm going to heed my own advice and do just that.
 

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Missy Peregrym's #1 fan!
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1. yes, regardless of their skill, unless they can see into the future how could they possibly know if a car is coming out of that blind corner?

2. No. It's been proven time and time again and it's been told to us by our parents when we ask them whether or not they trusted us when it came to driving in high school. "it's not you im worried about, it's the other driver". Plain and simple, driving faster lessens reaction time. You think it's hard to avoid some moron turning in front of you at 45 imagine if it was a posted 55 for bikers, and then take into consideration that you are probably going faster than 55 to begin with.
 

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Seperate speed limits for "high performance vehicles" already exists across this big country of ours. It's called race tracks. Having different speed limits for different classes of vehicles makes driving a real pain. Many roads around here limit trucks to 55mph while the rest of us can go 65mph. Ever try to maintain legal speed behind a semi that's trying to pass another semi? Can't be done. If you just must see how fast your ride can go, get on a track.
Agree 100%. Take it to the track.
 

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Time to Ride
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The problem is that having a high performance vehicle, doesn't mean you have a high performance rider. Anyone can buy a bike. If you want to see this in real time, go to youtube and type in fatal motorcycle crash. It appears to be in Europe, but it is just like you describe, bike passing on double yellow, crosses line once and makes it, crosses again, and hit another motorcycle head on. Not a pretty sight.

well said...........plus another thing, even if the rider is skilled, what about the person they are passing, it may freak them out, and they may not have the skill set to deal with that kind of action
 

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h
the reality is, and I challange anyone to show me different, but a bike leaned over far enough to where you are dragging a knee, that thing has to be brought upright before you can take evasive action.........
I practice changing my line while in a corner. standing it up a little or making it tighter. it can be done at least at the speeds I'm riding at.
 

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My questions for the forum:

1) Were the riders shown passing a car on a double yellow line leading to a blind corner exhibiting any level of squidly behaviour? I think they were. It makes bikers look reckless and irresponsible, regardless of skill level. I think the reaction of most non-riders (and some riders, too, perhaps) would be to shake their heads in wonder.

2) What do you think of the multiple speed limit idea? A lot of states have different speed limits for cars and trucks. Does having a higher speed limit for "high performance vehicles" (read motorcycles) make sense?
1) this has been discussed on the local board. I am told but have not been shown that the double yellow is a guide line not a law. also been told that you can not be given a ticket for passing on double yellow. I seldom pass on double yellow, the car would have to be going really slow before I pass and even then not close to a corner. I've had cars pull to the left of the lane and wave me on but not passed because I couldn't see far enough ahead.

2) no way.
 
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