[palmac]

G'day Guys, I'm new here my name is Paul.

I run a cnc machine shop and as a personal side project I intend to build a 2000 liter V8 using two ZX12R cylinder blocks and heads. I'll make the case and crank myself. Bore 83 mm and stroke 46mm (hi revving). I went with Kawasaki as the base on the assumption that compared to say the Hayabusa the parts may be more plentiful and cost less. Set me straight if im off on this.
Anyway I'm looking for the following information if possible.
1. ZX12R cylinder spacing C/L spacing.
2. Cylinder block height ie from the case face to the deck. (Ignoring the cylinder spigots).
3. If anyone already had a cad model of the head and cylinder block Id be happy to pay them for a copy.

Attached are some screen shots of some parts I've modeled to date.

 

[WFO-KZ]

Welcome to the forums Paul,

That's an ambitious project, but with a CNC shop and Solidworks at your disposal I don't see why it won't succeed.
While I don't have the specific info you need, I am hopeful one of our many members might.

I think I speak for many members when I say this is an awesome project and wish you the best of luck and will be following it closely. Hopefully you will keep us updated on progress.

There are a few of us here who also have CNC & CAD-CAM backgrounds.

 

[palmac]

Thank you! Was thinking even a measured sketch or a scan of an old head gasket and the base gasket that goes under the cylinder block assuming they use one, these would be very helpful. And the depth of the cylinders and cylinder C/L spacing as I said earlier. That would give me most I need to complete the case.

Once I have the bottom end arranged I'll start buying some used top end parts but not until I'm happy with the case and cam drives.

I've designed and built a few engines from scratch in the past. So this is well in my sights.

There will be a chain drive for the cams at each end of the crank. The rear chain drive sprocket will have an idler between it and the crank to reverse the direction for the rear facing head. This puts all the intakes facing each other down the center tunnel and keeps the cams rotating in the correct direction for each head.

Feedback good or or not so good is always welcome.

Cheers Paul

 

[WFO-KZ]

Does Solidworks do FEA or mass calcs? It may be useful to analyze various parts for stress/strain and for weight.

 

[Kawasakian]

I If the heads are facing each other, you could just make a set of gears for the ends of the crankshafts and run them, as they will be running in opposite directions. The end result would be a much lighter engine, one less very complicated crank to grind. You would only need cut off the bottom transmission of one engine and Tig weld it to the other, and you would have the cranks driving each other with big fat gears. This would solve all your cam gear drive issues. Just an idea to try and save you a 100 hours or so.

Is that a scale drawing? I would guess not, if it was, you could all the data you need from them.

 

[palmac]

Does Solidworks do FEA or mass calcs? It may be useful to analyze various parts for stress/strain and for weight.

Solidworks does have FEA. But from experience the engine will be plenty strong enough, and besides its just an excuse to build a racing V8. Most of the components will be stock Kawasaki, rods, pistons, heads, cylinders etc. So the case, crank, and cam drives that will be my own.

 

[palmac]

I If the heads are facing each other, you could just make a set of gears for the ends of the crankshafts and run them, as they will be running in opposite directions. The end result would be a much lighter engine, one less very complicated crank to grind. You would only need cut off the bottom transmission of one engine and Tig weld it to the other, and you would have the cranks driving each other with big fat gears. This would solve all your cam gear drive issues. Just an idea to try and save you a 100 hours or so.

Is that a scale drawing? I would guess not, if it was, you could all the data you need from them.

Drawing is scale yes, but far from finished. Being CAD I can quickly juggle things about. The pot spacing’s are now 88 mm for the Hayabusa. But I will change that for what ever the ZX12-R cylinder block is. Once I have that info.

I think your idea is to effectively run two engines Siamese, with two separate cranks geared together? That would work, but what I’m shooting for is a small traditional racing V8, with one flat plane crank. Much like the H1V8 layout attached, but instead using ZX12R bits.

 

[Kawasakian]

I primarily work with Rhino3D. The reason I asked if your drawing was to scale was that if it was, using parametric scaling, you could get all the answers to your questions. Of course this differs from having ac actual crankshaft in hand, and the components, mostly the components, as you will have to make your own crankshaft. So the dimensions from your crankshaft will have to match the bearing sizes, etc.. There's a guy in England who has done this on a few different bikes. He did a superb job, though I felt that the horsepower gain he achieved made the project kind of not worth it. Why not design your own V-8? Using the components of one that exists, how much more could you gain, as you will be bring into the melding the deficiencies of each motor, and doubling them.

Just wondering, I programmed CNC machines 4,5 and 8 axis for over 15 years, designed the fixtures, even end mills. I have no doubt you could do this project.

Have you ever seen Allen Millyard's work? Videos well worth watching. He's done what you are planning to do, and a lot more.

Link =

This link takes you to all his videos plus the one below.

 

[palmac]

I primarily work with Rhino3D. The reason I asked if your drawing was to scale was that if it was, using parametric scaling, you could get all the answers to your questions. Of course this differs from having ac actual crankshaft in hand, and the components, mostly the components, as you will have to make your own crankshaft. So the dimensions from your crankshaft will have to match the bearing sizes, etc.. There's a guy in England who has done this on a few different bikes. He did a superb job, though I felt that the horsepower gain he achieved made the project kind of not worth it. Why not design your own V-8? Using the components of one that exists, how much more could you gain, as you will be bring into the melding the deficiencies of each motor, and doubling them.

Just wondering, I programmed CNC machines 4,5 and 8 axis for over 15 years, designed the fixtures, even end mills. I have no doubt you could do this project.

Have you ever seen Allen Millyard's work? Videos well worth watching. He's done what you are planning to do, and a lot more.

Link =

This link takes you to all his videos plus the one below.

Hi yeah, Ive seen all of Millyards work. Its brilliant! That man can do anything with a hacksaw a file and a welder! His V8 uses a stock Z1 crank pressed together. He thinned the big end rollers and rods and squeezed two on to the stock crank pin. It worked but the rods are now very thin at the big ends. To me this is not opitimal. So I will make my own crank and use stock rods. Im assuming the ZX12R heads, clyinders, pistons and rods of high qulity and performance, and so all those qualities should transfer over. The rest will be my parts.
I'll be using my own oil, scvenger, and coolant pumps. Bearings? The crank big ends will use stock ZX12R bearing shells the mains Ive made 40 mm using my own shells from my own engines. The larger mains gives me more crank pin overlap and stiffeness.

If anyone here has old ZX12R bits, even if blown, I'd be interested in them.

Cheers Paul

 

[Kawasakian]

I wondered about those crank ends. I don't think he really pushes those bikes hard, why would you. It will be interesting to see what you innovate. Aston Martin used the basic Duratec 24 Valve engine and put them end to end (a simplified statement) to come up with the V-12 for the DB7 and subsequent cars.