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itching to ride
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Discussion Starter #1
Bike was running fine but the choke was not working so I would hand choke it. Pulled the carbs and found the bowls where the enrichment tube goes was plugged. Cleaned those out and pulled the choke knob rod and plunger to be sure the passage was not stopped up.
Slapped back on the bike and choke now works.

But the dance is not over. Went for a spin and found now I have a hanging slider. :wink: Err...I mean the throttle hangs and is slow to return to idle. :confused: Pulled the tank and checked for air leaks and to be sure the cable was not binding. Cable works like it should and after spraying starter fluid around the intake manifolds and airbox boots and any place air could get in I am finding none.

Did a google search and a couple sites said the pilot jets could cause this. It seems to be running lean at idle because I can put my hand over the air inlet and restrict some air and it picks up rpms. Idle or slow speed circuits clogged perhaps? Pulled the choke out some and the engine races to about 5 grand. But I had to turn the idle screw up to get it to idle so the butterfly is probably open a bit.

I have never seen the pilot circuits clogged hang the throttle. From my experience usually it just stumbles until you build rpms. Mine does not seem to stumble but I now have that hanging curve ball. I do not really want to pull the carbs again if I can avoid it. I thought about dumping some seafoam in the bowls and running that through and then riding awhile to see if she straightens out. I would have to do the slow speed putter so those circuits would primarily come into play. That is almost against my nature....regardless of what zoro thinks. :tongue:

Oh... and I know it is not really a choke but that is easier to type than fuel enrichment every time. :lol:
 

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Navy Vet Search & Rescue
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Oh... and I know it is not really a choke but that is easier to type than fuel enrichment every time. :lol:
Well this is your lucky day then. :lol: Regardless of how is accomplishes adding the extra fuel into the mixture it is still referred to as a Choke.

If you've eliminated air leaks, cable/throttle grip/carb slide hanging, there's not much to do but pull the carbs. If it's only lean then I'd have to guess that it's something that is partially blocking the pilot (assuming the idle hang is new). Did you check the rest of the carbs the same way (hand partially blocking it) to see if they did the same thing? If any or all of those do the same then I'd go back to the beginning and start checking everything again.
 

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AZ's Official Mechanic
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if pilots are partially plugged and you had to idle it up to compensate then its gonna act all weird... when you idle it up you open the throttle plates and start to uncover the transfer ports in the carb ... untill it will idle on the pilot alone it will act weird.. (2-strokes are really weird when you uncover the transfer ports)
so pull the carbs , make sure pilot jets/pilot circuit in carbs are 100% clean and reset the idle to 1000rpm........
did you mess with the pilot screws while in there ? new o-rings on pilot screws ?
 

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itching to ride
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Discussion Starter #4
Funny Mike, I don't feel lucky.
But I did notice that usually whenever anyone mentions choke someone else will come along and say well it really is not a choke ..blah blah blah.

The rest of the carbs? I placed my hand over the air inlet of the airbox, not any individual carbs. That would be hard to do without pulling the airbox. Yes the idle hang is new.

When I first started it after it warmed it idled fine at around 1100 rpms. When I took it for a spin I noticed the hanging idle. If I slowed gradual it did fine but if I just pulled the clutch then it would not return to idle like it should. It may be tomorrow before I get to check since today is my anniversary and the misses may have other ideas. In the mean time I welcome any and all comments and suggestions.
 

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This space for rent
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I know you don't really want to hear this, But I think you should take the carbs off and check/set the fuel levels.

Maybe it's time for a complete cleaning while you have them off?
Beats taking them off again.
 

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itching to ride
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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah cause it was all the way back to last fall that I set the floats. I can check the fuel level without removing the carbs though.

I am sure I will figure it out. I just thought since it was doing so well before I cleaned the choke tubes that it may have affected something somehow and someone here had ran across a similar problem. I tried the search and found the standard responses so I googled to see if there was anything else out there.
 

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Navy Vet Search & Rescue
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I'd try some down pressure on the carb linkage when releasing the throttle just to make sure it's not the cable or grip hanging up a little right before it gets to the idle position.
 

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itching to ride
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Discussion Starter #8
Carbs are off and on computer desk right now.

I went and messed with it this evening and found that cylinders 1 & 2 were running fine but 3 & 4 were not. I checked the exhaust pipes and determined this after letting it run for a few minutes at low speed of 3000 or less to make sure my pilot circuits were what was being called upon. Checked plugs compression and firing to be sure it was fuel related.

What I found is #3 pilot jet was stopped up and #4 I have not been able to get out yet. Dropped a little oil in there hoping for a miracle. Might have to get a screw extractor as my smallest one got broke the other day. (not by me):frown: Anywho cleaned the plugged jet and made sure the other two were as good. Dropped a little oil in the passages and saw it come out through the tiny hole in the throat so it appears it was only the jet that was clogged. Now if I can get this last pilot jet out without damaging it then that should be that.

Thanks for all your help and advice. Even when you have an idea what is going on sometimes it helps to bounce it off others that you trust. Two heads as they say....:smile:

What's funny about all this is the other night when I was cleaning the choke tubes I thought a couple times about checking the pilot jets but did not. As many times as that 'lil voice' is right you would think I would have learned by now.
 

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GHOSTRIDER
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Carbs are off and on computer desk right now.
Thanks for all your help and advice. Even when you have an idea what is going on sometimes it helps to bounce it off others that you trust. Two heads as they say....:smile:
Wait a dog gone minute!:toetap:I just found this thread and it dont have a happy ending....yet! Whats up with the stuck pilot? Is it out yet? And you can putt around like an old woman in a Desoto all you want, Ill try not to hack on ya!.....too much!:razz: Ive got my girl back in the dining room awaiting shims and cam plugs. Im pulling the carbs and going through them again,think Ill try the lemon juice bath on them and take a close look at the linkage seals and choke linkage seals as well because shes developed a lingering idle too! Theres so many variables that can come into play on these carbs and engines that I think some fixes come through a process of elimination and maintenance rather than identifying any one certain problem. :wink: This is why I love these old rockets, I am the computer and the codes are simply do's and dont's with a few what ifs. They require constant attention and tweaking. Maybe thats why the other old girl split.....:confused: Hmmm! Hey! Ive got a screw driver and a hammer, we'll get that GPz dialed in! :wink:....."At the Lake!"
 

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itching to ride
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Discussion Starter #10
I was wondering when you were going to show up. :-D

You know how old eyes get. They miss things. Like teeny tiny miniscule holes in pilot jets. I still have that one stuck and am hoping to get her out without destroying it because I do not wish to wait another week for one to arrive.

I found out last night that there are 3 holes in the throat that the pilot can feed. They are all clear except this stuck one. I put a little lightweight oil down the tube and tapped on the top with my finger to create a little air pressure wave and saw oil bubbling from all three holes. Pretty clever eh? :wink:

I traded the desota for an edsel though.:tongue:
 

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AZ's Official Mechanic
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those 3 holes are the TRANSFER PORTS i was talking about..... you could just leave the stuck pilot in place, run a wire thru it, and blow it out . then do your oil trick again (or just watch the carb cleaner spray thru the holes in the carb) pull the pilot screw out and blow thru that too (make sure ya remove the spring/washer/o-ring first)
 

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itching to ride
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Discussion Starter #12
I do not know what the problem with that one pilot was. I got it out with a screw extractor and had a time clearing the hole. No way I could have ran a wire thru it but I did try before finally yanking it. I finally took a needle and sanded it down skinny enough to fit thru the others and it was still a lot of trouble getting thru that one.

I also sprayed carb cleaner thru them to clean up any oil residue. I still am going to double check every orifice this time because I do not want to have to go back in because I was rushing like in the past. Besides it is calling for rain for a day or two so what would be the rush?

I would like to thank everyone for their advice and help.
 

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GHOSTRIDER
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Farout! Ill bring you a set of brand new tip cleaners at the lake,:wink: They give them to the welders on various jobs and Ive accumulated dozens of sets. I think Z1 gets $10 a set! Mine are free to "Ridgerunners and Razorbacks" :lol: Glad you got that thing out of there! Did you drill it or damage it with the extractor?
 

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my throtle was hanging after a rebuild this winter I tried every thing possible and they just kept hanging, till I vacuum synchronized. that may be the problem you have. the fact that 3 & 4 seemed wrong too may be another tell tale that the carbs have been needing to be synched for a while.
 

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itching to ride
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Discussion Starter #16
Farout! Ill bring you a set of brand new tip cleaners at the lake,:wink: They give them to the welders on various jobs and Ive accumulated dozens of sets. I think Z1 gets $10 a set! Mine are free to "Ridgerunners and Razorbacks" :lol: Glad you got that thing out of there! Did you drill it or damage it with the extractor?
I have a set of tip cleaners. That hole is too tiny for even the smallest one. I took a piece of common household appliance cord and stripped the insulation and took a single strand and ran it through, then two strands. Most it would take is two strands. And I really do not like poking steel tip cleaners in a brass fitting because the soft brass can easily be enlarged.
Looks like we might have to bring a toolbox and make this a working/fishing trip. :lol:
I hope you are not saying you usually travel without tools. :wink:

my throtle was hanging after a rebuild this winter I tried every thing possible and they just kept hanging, till I vacuum synchronized. that may be the problem you have. the fact that 3 & 4 seemed wrong too may be another tell tale that the carbs have been needing to be synched for a while.
Well I synched them after I got it running last fall and then when I did the valve clearance this winter I did it again. But I will once again check it since I went back into the carbs.
 

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Well this is your lucky day then. :lol: Regardless of how is accomplishes adding the extra fuel into the mixture it is still referred to as a Choke.

If you've eliminated air leaks, cable/throttle grip/carb slide hanging, there's not much to do but pull the carbs. If it's only lean then I'd have to guess that it's something that is partially blocking the pilot (assuming the idle hang is new). Did you check the rest of the carbs the same way (hand partially blocking it) to see if they did the same thing? If any or all of those do the same then I'd go back to the beginning and start checking everything again.
Hey Kawpaul, Like Stagate said, "If you eliminated air leaks" From my experience, the carb manifolds are very weak points and if you removed them, they leak. Even if you just removed your carbs, they leak. I fixed mine (I think you may remember) using sealer but your symptoms (I think) could easily be caused by leaking intake manifolds. Please excuse me if I missed something but those rubber boots need to be looked at especially if you have a lean situation and/or racing at idle.
 

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itching to ride
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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks choc for you imput. A few months back I did have an air leak and thanks to StarGate I checked the intake manifolds and found two were sucking air. Being cheap (and broke) I did not buy new ones but used gasket sealer that was rated for fuel and pulled all 4 and put a little sealer on them and snugged them up. Checked and no air leaks. Now whenever I pull the carbs I check for air leaks because running lean can hole a piston. It is cheap insurance to simply spray around any place air can get in with some starter fluid.
 
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