I'm working on a 1996 600 Eliminator for a neighbor and of course the rubbers between the carbs and airbox are rock hard and shrunken. I can't seem to find new ones anywhere so I'm thinking about removing the airbox and running K&N pods on it. I know this will be a drastic change in jetting but not really sure what other options I have. Does anyone have any other suggestions or at least a starting point for jetting that will get me close?
ZL600 airbox removal
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most people jet them too rich.
u need a dyno and wideband to get it where it needs to be, and expect to have to play with air bleeds too. And slides, needles, pilots, everything.
u need a dyno and wideband to get it where it needs to be, and expect to have to play with air bleeds too. And slides, needles, pilots, everything.
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OK, I know this is a 1 in a million chance, do you by any chance still have that front airbox? I have the rear portion with the battery case but I'm trying to reconstruct my bike back to stock.
I'll certainly pay you.
Thx and regards,
Steve
I'll certainly pay you.
Thx and regards,
Steve
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They have them as listed available at Revzilla. 
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To Kawasakian:
When you click on the link for the part, the are 'Out of Stock'. Appreciate your suggestion.
To WFO-KZ:
Sadly, there is nothing on ebay.
1) Do you know if we can list a part number or description where ebay or any other parts site notifies you when it comes in?
2) Do you have a list of KAW MC salvage yards I can call or web brouse?
3) Do you know the exact manufacturing dimensions of the airbox part 11010-1558? I might fabricate my own or use a 3D printer.
Thanks for any help.
When you click on the link for the part, the are 'Out of Stock'. Appreciate your suggestion.
To WFO-KZ:
Sadly, there is nothing on ebay.
1) Do you know if we can list a part number or description where ebay or any other parts site notifies you when it comes in?
2) Do you have a list of KAW MC salvage yards I can call or web brouse?
3) Do you know the exact manufacturing dimensions of the airbox part 11010-1558? I might fabricate my own or use a 3D printer.
Thanks for any help.
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Yes, Ebay has a watch list of some kind where they will notify you when the item you want gets listed.
I forget exactly what they call it, but I used it a few years back. I waited a year before this impossible to source part was listed. So, it can work if you are patient.
Google motorcycle salvage and see what comes up.
I was going to suggest that you 3D print your own airbox by looking at general shape on parts diagrams and then measuring the physical space on your bike.
I forget exactly what they call it, but I used it a few years back. I waited a year before this impossible to source part was listed. So, it can work if you are patient.
Google motorcycle salvage and see what comes up.
I was going to suggest that you 3D print your own airbox by looking at general shape on parts diagrams and then measuring the physical space on your bike.
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Have you checked to see if you can connect to the airbox withh Radiator Hose sections (or other wide diameter hose), and at the box, use larger hose, or cut the holes larger, depending on your need. I have seen people make home made air box filters this way.
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If your into 3D printing, and I hope CAD, printing that box is possible, but to be honest, I was working with 3D printers when they were "Top Secret" back in 1983. I have come to find that many such products, as this air box, is easier to fabricate with a sheet metal brake, some hole saws, and a Mig Welder, or Spot Welder, to seal the edges. You could bang out a box that would work by calculating the overall volume, you only need be close, and bend a box together out of sheet metal. You can make it as nice or plain as you wish, but it would only take a couple of hours, far less time than a 3D printer, and the CAD time involved to design it. Find an available air filter and build the box around it, using the volume to gauge the air box size. If I were going to do this, (I did for a side draft DCOE 40mm Weber), I would just get an Oval Air Filter, two if necessary, and make a plate to mount to the carb and another plate to sandwich the air filter in between (no box). I made a 5 minute CAD model of the type of air filter Box I would think you could easily bend from some 18 Ga. metal to suit your needs, and make pretty fast. Not to scale of course, but all you would need is a pencil, paper, and a ruler. IMHO
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Yes, my first thought was light gage aluminum, similar to what you have illustrated. That is still my first course of action, I just would like to get the dimensions.
I don't need to create a filter holder because that is in the upstream box that holds the battery, fuse box and inlet air filter. They are connected with 2 ducts (hose) PN 1473A and B.
BTW, 3D printing has come a long way. For display purposes, students from the U of Maine constructed a boat from a 3D printer. Dont recall how big, it was about 20 ft +/-.
Thx for you suggestion
I don't need to create a filter holder because that is in the upstream box that holds the battery, fuse box and inlet air filter. They are connected with 2 ducts (hose) PN 1473A and B.
BTW, 3D printing has come a long way. For display purposes, students from the U of Maine constructed a boat from a 3D printer. Dont recall how big, it was about 20 ft +/-.
Thx for you suggestion
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My friend, you have no idea of the state of technology of the 3D printers I worked on in 1983, and it still makes me chuckle when I look at the archaic machines available to the public today. I am not at liberty to discuss anything about this subject matter, but making a boat with a 3D printer is rather easy and crude. What you are making is a vacuum box. Exact dimensions are not necessary. Do you do CAD? You could take a picture of the side of an Eliminator and use that as a background bitmap to draw the box, in 3D, then, using parametric scaling, get the volume of the box by scaling the box to full size. This is done by scaling the picture to full size using a known dimension, such as the diameter of the wheel. Parametric scaling will then scale the whole motorcycle to the size relative to that known dimension, and "Voila!" you have your dimensions. Again, do you do CAD? If you wanted to avoid all this mess, get a set of "Flat Slide Carbs for your bike, be done with the air box, and jet the flat slides to your motorcycle which will give it far more performance enhancement than the bike had new. I'd like to know if you do CAD, the reason is if I decided to help you, and you do not have the means to read the files, then my time is wasted.
The "Flat Slide" carbs are the best route to go on bikes missing all their intake components, and to get maximum performance. Easiest too.
The video below shows some of what is publicly available, more of what I am familiar with (sort of) consumer grade products are decades behind (this clip is 7 years old). The significance of the short film clip below is this is a reconstruction of the same Rocket Engine used to launch the Apollo missions, but it was 3D printed. Instead of start, and burn till it ran out of fuel, this engine can be throttled, shut off, and started again, 1960's technology future proofed. By cracking water in space, Brown's Gas can by used as rocket fuel and a viable space engine is made (Ice asteroids, harvesting the Ice and turning it into Rocket fuel). It has been miniaturized since, but the smaller ones do not have the power to lift ration as what is shown below. This was made using the additive 3D printing method, using lasers and Titanium dust.
The "Flat Slide" carbs are the best route to go on bikes missing all their intake components, and to get maximum performance. Easiest too.
The video below shows some of what is publicly available, more of what I am familiar with (sort of) consumer grade products are decades behind (this clip is 7 years old). The significance of the short film clip below is this is a reconstruction of the same Rocket Engine used to launch the Apollo missions, but it was 3D printed. Instead of start, and burn till it ran out of fuel, this engine can be throttled, shut off, and started again, 1960's technology future proofed. By cracking water in space, Brown's Gas can by used as rocket fuel and a viable space engine is made (Ice asteroids, harvesting the Ice and turning it into Rocket fuel). It has been miniaturized since, but the smaller ones do not have the power to lift ration as what is shown below. This was made using the additive 3D printing method, using lasers and Titanium dust.
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The nice thing about 3D printing is that you don't need a machine shop, sheet metal shop or a welding shop and you don't need the skills to run all that equipment. The time to print is irrelevant to me, as once I start the print job, I turn out the lights and go to bed. In the morning my print is finished.
But Kawasakian is right, that you need good 3D CAD modeling skills. But there are so many good online tutorials that anyone with half a brain can become pretty good in a short time. Plus it is fun to do 3D modeling and you will be printing so many useful things that you will wonder how you ever survived without a 3D printer. At least that's how I feel since I got mine about about a year ago. It has literally saved me thousands of dollars so far making parts for old cars and motorcycles.
But Kawasakian is right, that you need good 3D CAD modeling skills. But there are so many good online tutorials that anyone with half a brain can become pretty good in a short time. Plus it is fun to do 3D modeling and you will be printing so many useful things that you will wonder how you ever survived without a 3D printer. At least that's how I feel since I got mine about about a year ago. It has literally saved me thousands of dollars so far making parts for old cars and motorcycles.
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At a minimum a 3D printer should be capable of working with Nylon. This allows you to make very durable items. I don't know what kind of 3D printer you have. It takes a while with the consumer models to get things right, so you don't wake up to a blob that fell over halfway through the process. I am considering making a 3D printer, but I don't really have the use for one, and since I mostly work with metals, an metal additive printer is out of reach for me. On my forum we have a section for 3D developing and many 3D printer specialists. Some professional, and some enthusiasts. Without the CAD background, 3D printing is kind of jumping the gun. I use Rhino3D these days. I like it's "NURBS" abilities, which is great for 3D printing.
In this particular situation, I would just go with flat slide carbs, and get the motorcycle going. You'll have a much better intake situation this route. IMHO
In this particular situation, I would just go with flat slide carbs, and get the motorcycle going. You'll have a much better intake situation this route. IMHO
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I have to confess, I don't know much about flat side carbs. Do they work well with pods? Is that the advantage?
Are they expensive?
Nylon would be one of the best printer filaments to use but PLA can work also. Here is what one user said:
"I have tested both Ultimachine PLA and ABS prints in avgas with no noticeable effects (disolving, delamination). The materials when printed are relatively porous and will retain any residuals quite permanently. So, I wouldn't use it to transfer fuel, but it seems relatively resistant to it from breaking down. Print a demo part and put it in a glass jar with the fuel, whether it be gasoline or diesel, and see how it works!"
The glass jar test is an excellent idea. I currently have a glass jar test that is proving that a certain electrical wire insulation will survive immersion in gasoline. So far, after 1.5 years of immersion in gasoline, there is no noticeable effect.
Are they expensive?
Nylon would be one of the best printer filaments to use but PLA can work also. Here is what one user said:
"I have tested both Ultimachine PLA and ABS prints in avgas with no noticeable effects (disolving, delamination). The materials when printed are relatively porous and will retain any residuals quite permanently. So, I wouldn't use it to transfer fuel, but it seems relatively resistant to it from breaking down. Print a demo part and put it in a glass jar with the fuel, whether it be gasoline or diesel, and see how it works!"
The glass jar test is an excellent idea. I currently have a glass jar test that is proving that a certain electrical wire insulation will survive immersion in gasoline. So far, after 1.5 years of immersion in gasoline, there is no noticeable effect.
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Wait till PLA and ABS gets to the heat level a motorcycle head produces. It does not hold up. Flat Carb slides are the ultimate upgrade for carburated motorcycles. Their thin body is the shortest path an air fuel mixture can take, making for instantaneous response, something lost in constant velocity carbs. They aren't cheap, and they would have to be researched. The good thing is that since the displacement is known, tuning them is pretty easy, they will come close to what you need. The diameter of the holes is what has to be researched. The OP has to figure that out, and see how much he wants to spend. Flat slides are usually used with pods and those pods should be oiled regularly, as all pods should be. On a race track you just use velocity stacks.
Honestly, 3D printing for this kind of stuff is rather a circuitous route to go on a bike that isn't worth much, and in reality could take just about any carbs you can find for that displacement. Trying to go back to stock with this bike is really not financially sound. That's the hard truth. I have restored primarily Mercedes Benz cars, and a few bikes. Motorcycles are usually something that evolve into a bike you customize. Going back to stock is usually ridiculously expensive, unless you have found a survivor, like the guy with the GPZ.
I think that maybe this bike was overpriced and he paid way too much for it. Throwing more money into it, well, that should be done very carefully. I would look for carbs of the same size (by air flow) and ones that fit on the intake boots boots, off of EBAY and go with pods, get it running and ride it. This journey to stock will be impossible and a big waste of time, IMHO. Not trying to be brutal, just honest.
This site has a nice list of Mikuni Flat Slides, and a lot come with an accelerator pump.
Link = Genuine Mikuni Flat Slide TM Series Carburetors
Honestly, 3D printing for this kind of stuff is rather a circuitous route to go on a bike that isn't worth much, and in reality could take just about any carbs you can find for that displacement. Trying to go back to stock with this bike is really not financially sound. That's the hard truth. I have restored primarily Mercedes Benz cars, and a few bikes. Motorcycles are usually something that evolve into a bike you customize. Going back to stock is usually ridiculously expensive, unless you have found a survivor, like the guy with the GPZ.
I think that maybe this bike was overpriced and he paid way too much for it. Throwing more money into it, well, that should be done very carefully. I would look for carbs of the same size (by air flow) and ones that fit on the intake boots boots, off of EBAY and go with pods, get it running and ride it. This journey to stock will be impossible and a big waste of time, IMHO. Not trying to be brutal, just honest.
This site has a nice list of Mikuni Flat Slides, and a lot come with an accelerator pump.
Link = Genuine Mikuni Flat Slide TM Series Carburetors
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I have never noticed an airbox getting hot on any motorcycle I have owned. The constant flow of fresh air and the insulation provided by 2" long rubber ducts, followed by a carb and then another 1-2" of rubber duct isolates the airbox from any conducted heat from the cylinder head.
Hot air that flows backwards from the head is countered by the constant flow of cool, fresh air. Perhaps in a desert environment this might be different, but where I live the airboxes might get warm, but never hot enough to affect printer plastics some of which would be nearly identical to what the OEM boxes are made of. The carb plugs I made out of PLA plastic have not shown any degradation despite being even closer to the cylinder heads than an airbox.
All that aside, the beauty of printing is that once a design has been proven, it can be given or sold to any other user that needs one. A member here needed one of those rubber intake ducts for a 1970's single cylinder, rotary valve dirt bike. These are NLA are often the only thing stopping folks from completing their project bike. This member managed to find one that was about to disintegrate, but was still in one piece. He had it 3D scanned and printed out of a printer filament with rubber-like properties, by a local printing service. He has since had dozens of requests for the design or the product itself. It could turn into a money-making venture to fund restoration projects.
There are obviously two approaches for the OP. He can have one fabricated out of metal or he can have it printed. I think either one is a viable approach.
Hot air that flows backwards from the head is countered by the constant flow of cool, fresh air. Perhaps in a desert environment this might be different, but where I live the airboxes might get warm, but never hot enough to affect printer plastics some of which would be nearly identical to what the OEM boxes are made of. The carb plugs I made out of PLA plastic have not shown any degradation despite being even closer to the cylinder heads than an airbox.
All that aside, the beauty of printing is that once a design has been proven, it can be given or sold to any other user that needs one. A member here needed one of those rubber intake ducts for a 1970's single cylinder, rotary valve dirt bike. These are NLA are often the only thing stopping folks from completing their project bike. This member managed to find one that was about to disintegrate, but was still in one piece. He had it 3D scanned and printed out of a printer filament with rubber-like properties, by a local printing service. He has since had dozens of requests for the design or the product itself. It could turn into a money-making venture to fund restoration projects.
There are obviously two approaches for the OP. He can have one fabricated out of metal or he can have it printed. I think either one is a viable approach.
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You have more experience with this, I forgot that his airbox wasn't attached to the head. Temperature wouldn't be a problem. However, PLA has a relatively low glass transition temperature (typically between 111 and 145 °F), there are better materials to use. The thickness of the spark plug boots may have something to do with your luck so far, but PLA will melt in direct Sunlight, I have seen parts distorted by direct Sunlight made of PLA. This person has many options. The Flatslide carbs I linked two are around $400 bucks a piece, and this really makes your bike snappy, and easy to work with. Since they are made by Mikuni, parts will always be available for them.
For al the frustration and trouble he is expressing, IMHO, he should go towards modifying to get better results and to facilitate completion of his project. He's stuck with this airbox on a part that even if he does get a 3D model printed, how much could he really charge for such a part, calculating the time and effort?
There are easy ways to get this bike going, he seems to be stuck on the most difficult. This is not a collector bike, it never will be. It could be made into an extremely nice custom bike though and very functional at that. If he got past this intake block, he'd probably be riding by now.
For al the frustration and trouble he is expressing, IMHO, he should go towards modifying to get better results and to facilitate completion of his project. He's stuck with this airbox on a part that even if he does get a 3D model printed, how much could he really charge for such a part, calculating the time and effort?
There are easy ways to get this bike going, he seems to be stuck on the most difficult. This is not a collector bike, it never will be. It could be made into an extremely nice custom bike though and very functional at that. If he got past this intake block, he'd probably be riding by now.
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Correct, which is why I had said Nylon would be the best printer filament for this job.
My air screw plugs would never see direct sunlight and if they degrade I can print new ones in about 10 minutes or I could just use Nylon but often I am just too lazy to change the filament. LOL.
My guess is that a new airbox like this one could fetch $50 to $100. I dunno. Maybe the OP would tell us what he would have been willing to pay for an airbox if it were available. A good designer could model this part in an hour or two tops and the printing time is not relevant as once started it runs by itself until the job is done. I have left many parts to print all night. Yes once in a while the print job fails, but the only thing you have lost is maybe $2 worth of filament. No big deal.
So we differ in opinion and that's ok. It would be a boring world if we all agreed on everything.
My air screw plugs would never see direct sunlight and if they degrade I can print new ones in about 10 minutes or I could just use Nylon but often I am just too lazy to change the filament. LOL.
My guess is that a new airbox like this one could fetch $50 to $100. I dunno. Maybe the OP would tell us what he would have been willing to pay for an airbox if it were available. A good designer could model this part in an hour or two tops and the printing time is not relevant as once started it runs by itself until the job is done. I have left many parts to print all night. Yes once in a while the print job fails, but the only thing you have lost is maybe $2 worth of filament. No big deal.
So we differ in opinion and that's ok. It would be a boring world if we all agreed on everything.
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