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Question for any LEOs... Retroreflective paint?

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6.6K views 19 replies 9 participants last post by  RichLockyer  
#1 ·
I've got a question for the LEOs out there, but first let me explain...

See, I've had this crazy idea in the back of my head since about 1993 when I painted my Yamaha FZ600 all white. What I really wanted was to do a layer under the gloss coat of a clear retro-reflective paint. The only thing that stopped me was the "OMG my bike would light up like a torch in headlights!" I thought I may violate some law or something and left it at that, never finding out the answer. I've been considering painting my bike this winter and would like like to know if I can do this.

So my question is, is there a limit for the area of retro-reflective paint or tape on a vehicle? I mean, could I paint the whole thing in retro-reflective white and not get in trouble for it?

- Mike
 
#4 ·
oh I thought I had posted about that too. Sorry. I was going to do reflective on my rims in blue but a cop told me that it might be illegal in some states. So because I plan too eventually take the bike to other states I decided not to do it. I instead went to ebay and found some reflective vinyl that is about 1/2" thick and put it on the rim of the rim. I figure if they have a problem with it I can just peel it off and then I wouldnt get a ticket.

The vinyl cost me like $20 shipped I think.
 
#5 ·
No... you'll get a ticket and the officer might stand there and TELL you to peel it off (but you're still getting the ticket).

Blue is a definite no-no with lights, and might be a problem with retroreflective tape.
 
#6 ·
No... you'll get a ticket and the officer might stand there and TELL you to peel it off (but you're still getting the ticket).

Blue is a definite no-no with lights, and might be a problem with retroreflective tape.
Well I have ridden mine some and nobody has said anything about the reflective tape on my rim. Now because I do LED's as a hobby I know that Blue is illegal and most of the time the officer will have you remove the lights on the spot.

-Now as a BTW message to what i just said, I had an officer tell me last week that Florida changed there lighting laws so that you are aloud blue on the bike as long as it does not strobe or no any kind of dancing on the bike. I still can't find this law that he told me about but it would be nice!!
 
#7 ·
Not getting a definitive answer, I spent about a half an hour searching the California DMV website. Here's the only section of the California Vehicle Code that appears to apply to retroreflective tape & paint.

V.C. Section 25500 - Use of Reflectorizing Material

Use of Reflectorizing Material

25500. (a) Area reflectorizing material may be displayed on any vehicle, provided: the color red is not displayed on the front; designs do not tend to distort the length or width of the vehicle; and designs do not resemble official traffic control devices, except that alternate striping resembling a barricade pattern may be used.

No vehicle shall be equipped with area reflectorizing material contrary to these provisions.

(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to license plate stickers or tabs affixed to license plates as authorized by the Department of Motor Vehicles.
Amended Ch. 1536, Stats. 1971. Operative May 3, 1972.


It doesn't appear to preclude painting the whole bike in retroreflective material of any color. The only things it appears to disallow is red retroreflective tape/paint facing front and the tape/paint distorting the size/width of the vehicle.
 
#8 ·
The law you quoted is about it, but one thing to remember.

If you do the WHOLE bike, you're gonna potentially blind someone, and cause a wreck. Do something simple, like stripes or flames, where it won't be massive, otherwise you could get a ticket for having a "nuisance vehicle," or whatever they call it in Cali.
 
#10 ·
I agree...it's bad enough when people have their brights on, do us all a favor and don't do the whole bike. Chances are, some idiot won't "look away" and follow the light, running into you, someone or something else.

-Cody
 
#11 ·
+1

We are required to wear reflective vests for work. We joke about them being targets on our backs, but there's a lot of truth to the joke.

Drunks will always tend to follow "the shiny thing"... a LOT of cops are nailed while involved with a traffic stop by a drunk who simply drove right into their car watching the beacons.
 
#12 ·
Well Rich, I would love to say it's only drunks, but people NOT under the influence do it as well! That's why MOST LEO's are nailed like Rich said, people see the lights and actually follow them (natural reaction). Also, human eyes are more attracted to red and blue, hence why police use them. However, they are starting to pulsate between them and yellow lights because of so many people running into police.

Look next time you pass someone (but don't stare!) and see if the cruiser has the yellow "safety" lights on them.

-Cody
 
#13 ·
I think they used to fly yellow out here, but I haven't seen that since the early 70s. For a long time it was red only, then probably in the 80s they went to red and blue.
 
#16 ·
Are they still required to have at least one solid red along with the flashing beacons out there?
I haven't noticed.
CHP will have a red spot on the door pillar facing forward, but I haven't noticed from behind.
 
#17 ·
Dunno about the reflective idea, sounds flashy though!
This might look prettier:
Check out the Saleen 'stang!
Legal, too.
YouTube - Saleen Mustang iridescent paint
Nah. What I really want is my bike to be white for visibility, then I got to thinking (back in 1993) how I could make that even brighter at night. I haven't followed through with it, it's just an idea I am thinking about. I have ordered some of the Duplicolor clear retroreflective paint. I may just do a clear coat of it over the parts of my bike's plastics that are grey.
 
#18 ·
Are they still required to have at least one solid red along with the flashing beacons out there?
Yep. Being temporarily e/x/i/l/e/d . . . er, t/r/a/p/p/e/d . . .uhm, VISITING Kahlifonia (as the Governator pronounces it), I've had the chance to review the lighting situation.

California has always required a steady-burning, forward-facing red light. Under the law, that's the ONLY light that you are required to yield to -- all others are just there to attract your attention. If you're in the People's Republic and a car comes up behind you with a red spotlight, move over.

In olden times, all CA public safety agencies had their own lighting setups for marked units. For instance, LA County agencies used a "Christmas tree" for both the Sheriff's Office and fire department, which consisted of lollipop lights which were mounted on the siren (which made installation and replacement easy), while LAPD had the famous "Adam-12" setup, SFPD had an additional set of lights at the back of the roof, and so on. Smaller agencies often used clamp-on bars with one or two rotating beacons bolted to them.

When Federal invented their TwinSonic bar (as seen on "Emergency!"'s Squad 51), this was quickly adopted by a number of agencies (Federal gave a sweetheart deal to LA County, as the first major adopter of the whole idea of integral light bars). LACO loved it -- installation was easier than the Christmas tree, and visibility was significantly increased, necessary now that things were more crowded and vehicle speeds higher (thus leaving less time for drivers to see, identify and respond to the lights).

The LA County standard was red on both sides, with a steady red to the front and a flashing amber behind the steady red, and a stainless steel mirror which turned the left rotating pod from a single flash to double. On the right side was a stainless-steel wavy mirror, which would reflect the right pod forward with three quick flashes. Both pods were driven by a single motor and chain, so they were synchronized -- lights on both sides pointed to the front and rear at the same time, for the maximum amount of light in a single flash. Thus the setup, from left (driver's side) to right was rotating pod, mirror, steady red, loudspeaker, wavy mirror, rotating pod.

LA County Fire pioneered the idea of multicolored bars, when they accidentally got some with amber domes on one side. The red-amber combination pretty much went away (fire guys prefer red-red, and volunteer fire guys often have red on the left and white on the right), but not before the CHP got the idea of buying them with BLUE domes on the right side (they didn't want to look like county cops). Unfortunately for the Hot Pencils, before the Legislature had a chance to rewrite the law to reserve the blue for state agencies, Glendora PD (east of Los Angeles) bought red-blue TwinSonics. Once other agencies in the area realized that the sky wasn't going to fall, they, too, bought with red and blue -- and TV producers started asking for this combination, too.

Once it hit TV, the combination was rapidly adopted by smaller agencies all over the country, then eventually became the de facto standard. I once talked with a Code 3 rep who said he'd never seen one of their integral bars mounted on a cop car with red on both sides -- fire engines, yes, but cops always bought red and blue, or just blue. Code 3 at the time had a better system, where each rotating pod had its own motor and was belt driven (quieter and more reliable). They put the steady red and flashing amber between the two pods in the left (no mirror) and a diamond-shaped mirror on the right (which flashed to front and rear). They then came up with a cool system called "SelectAlert," which switched the rotating lamps on and off so that they only showed to the rear, giving a series of fast sweeps rather than a single blinker. The one drawback was that the moving pods could be seen to the front, even with the lights dark, so if you were working your way through the herd to move up on someone, the movement might attract their attention while you were still a couple of lengths back.

This problem was solved by adding ArrowSticks to radio cars, and rigging them to flash "excuse me" -- but SelectAlert went away when the low-profile bars came along (replacing PAR 36 bulbs with the little Christmas-light halogens), so the last generation of blub-driven bars have flashers again, bringing everything full-circle.

Now the LED bars are taking over . . .but California still has the steady-burning module in the front.

I think that the steady-red rule is a good one. Even the fastest glance in the mirror shows the light, while it is possible for ALL of the moving and flashing lights to be dark to the front at the same time (especially all-strobe bars). LED bars are not as bright as hot-bulb bars -- they meet the codes because of flash duration, and only in the narrow field of illumination -- so they aren't as attention-getting anyhow.

It also eliminates problems for the millions of drivers who are partially color-blind and have trouble identifying a red flash from a yellow flash. The steady light is easier to interpret, and usually only found on public safety vehicles (the primary exceptions are former PS bars which have been handed down to, say, the streets department).

Hope this answers your questions.

There will be an exam tomorrow, so review your notes tonight . . . :biggrin:
 
#19 ·
Well Rich, I would love to say it's only drunks, but people NOT under the influence do it as well! That's why MOST LEO's are nailed like Rich said, people see the lights and actually follow them (natural reaction).
I watched a drunk explain that he ran into a traffic car because he was following the ArrowStik -- which was flashing outer-inner-outer-inner!

Also, human eyes are more attracted to red and blue, hence why police use them.
Actually, AMBER is the most visible color, and penetrates fog better than red, blue or even white.

Most agencies have had amber to the rear for decades for this reason.
 
#20 ·
LED bars are not as bright as hot-bulb bars -- they meet the codes because of flash duration, and only in the narrow field of illumination -- so they aren't as attention-getting anyhow.
I disagree on this one.
The LED strips on the Chino cars, I'll notice them, day or night, when they have someone stopped or they have a DUI checkpoint set up for well over 1/2 mile away with traffic in front of me.
With the old Twinsonics, I wouldn't become aware of them until I was right on them.
Actually, AMBER is the most visible color, and penetrates fog better than red, blue or even white.
+1
Astronomers and pilots use red in their instruments because it does not cause the pupils to constrict, which harms night vision. I prefer red dashboard illumination.